Sony VG10 and Cineform at DVinfo.net

Robert Young · October 12th, 2010, 06:45 PM

I've just started working with footage from the new Sony VG10 APS chip camera.
It's format is a bit unusual- it actually shoots 30p, but divides each frame to fields and records it as 60i.
On HDLink conversion, if I set the prefs source footage selector to 60i & put the resulting CFHD on a CS5 60i timeline, the previewing has some aliasing and tearing.
If I set HDLink source setting to 30p, convert & put on a 30p timeline, it looks good.
I'm not sure exactly what HDLink is doing though.
Is it
1) properly combining the 2 fields back into the original 30p, or
2) doing a software "deinterlace" with some undesirable massaging of the fields, or
3) even worse, processing only half my horizontal resolution (hardly likely, since PPro reads the CFHD file as 1920x1080.
Would appreciate any info/experience, etc.
Thanks

David Newman · October 12th, 2010, 08:01 PM

1) it is combining the two fields into on progressive frame.

I don't have a VG10 sample, could you please upload a nice clip we can test with.

Robert Young · October 12th, 2010, 09:32 PM

Definitely can do that:
It will be an AVCHD clip ingested from the camera card to the hard drive by the Sony PMB software.
I can get you one straight off of the card, but I don't think that would matter.
I'll attach it to a trouble ticket, attention to you.

Robert Young · October 12th, 2010, 09:55 PM

David
Ooops..
The clip was 43MB and was too large to deliver on a trouble ticket.
Maybe you can give me an FTP link

David Newman · October 13th, 2010, 11:48 AM

use Yousendit.com. Put the send to email so yourself, then email me (via DVInfo.net) the link that yousendit.com emails you.

Robert Young · October 13th, 2010, 04:03 PM

Got it.
I'll get it off tonight.

James Campbell · November 5th, 2010, 10:21 AM

I'm very interested in the answer to Bob's questions also. I'm purchasing a VG10 this week, and I've been reading up on the specs. It appears that it's recording 30p but within a 60i wrapper. If that's the case, I agree that you'd set to capture as 30p, and hopefully it's doing as David states.

I don't know if you were able to take a look yet at Bob's footage, David, but if this helps, there are also a number of downloadable clips on Vimeo here, although I wonder if the Vimeo recodes take out the info you need to determine what the Cineform software should do with it:

Sony NEX-VG10 User Group videos on Vimeo

Sony NEX-VG10 Lens Test - Sony NEX-VG10 User Group on Vimeo

David Newman · November 5th, 2010, 10:51 AM

Get the latest beta 5.2.2.281 as it handles the VG10 very well. We even change a lot of the conversion pipeline within HDLink to fix this camera. This whole progressive frames in 60i was cause the upstream decoders (not CineForm) to do the 4:2:0 decoding wrong cause weird chroma artifact, but that is all solved. Simple convert in HDLink / NeoScene will progressive enabled and the results are really good.

Robert Young · November 5th, 2010, 10:04 PM

I've had no problem with VG footage by telling HDLink that files are a 30p source.
I'm getting full rez conversions w/ good preview quality, etc.
Final renders to delivery look good too- from web to Blu Ray.
I haven't used 5.2.2.281 yet, but I'm assuming it's the same procedure.

October 12th, 2010, 06:45 PM	#1
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Sony VG10 and Cineform I've just started working with footage from the new Sony VG10 APS chip camera. It's format is a bit unusual- it actually shoots 30p, but divides each frame to fields and records it as 60i. On HDLink conversion, if I set the prefs source footage selector to 60i & put the resulting CFHD on a CS5 60i timeline, the previewing has some aliasing and tearing. If I set HDLink source setting to 30p, convert & put on a 30p timeline, it looks good. I'm not sure exactly what HDLink is doing though. Is it 1) properly combining the 2 fields back into the original 30p, or 2) doing a software "deinterlace" with some undesirable massaging of the fields, or 3) even worse, processing only half my horizontal resolution (hardly likely, since PPro reads the CFHD file as 1920x1080. Would appreciate any info/experience, etc. Thanks __________________ Bob

October 12th, 2010, 08:01 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	1) it is combining the two fields into on progressive frame. I don't have a VG10 sample, could you please upload a nice clip we can test with. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 12th, 2010, 09:32 PM	#3
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Definitely can do that: It will be an AVCHD clip ingested from the camera card to the hard drive by the Sony PMB software. I can get you one straight off of the card, but I don't think that would matter. I'll attach it to a trouble ticket, attention to you. __________________ Bob

October 12th, 2010, 09:55 PM	#4
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	David Ooops.. The clip was 43MB and was too large to deliver on a trouble ticket. Maybe you can give me an FTP link __________________ Bob

October 13th, 2010, 11:48 AM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	use Yousendit.com. Put the send to email so yourself, then email me (via DVInfo.net) the link that yousendit.com emails you. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 13th, 2010, 04:03 PM	#6
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Got it. I'll get it off tonight. __________________ Bob

November 5th, 2010, 10:21 AM	#7
James Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cheshire, CT Posts: 110	I'm very interested in the answer to Bob's questions also. I'm purchasing a VG10 this week, and I've been reading up on the specs. It appears that it's recording 30p but within a 60i wrapper. If that's the case, I agree that you'd set to capture as 30p, and hopefully it's doing as David states. I don't know if you were able to take a look yet at Bob's footage, David, but if this helps, there are also a number of downloadable clips on Vimeo here, although I wonder if the Vimeo recodes take out the info you need to determine what the Cineform software should do with it: Sony NEX-VG10 User Group videos on Vimeo Sony NEX-VG10 Lens Test - Sony NEX-VG10 User Group on Vimeo

November 5th, 2010, 10:51 AM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Get the latest beta 5.2.2.281 as it handles the VG10 very well. We even change a lot of the conversion pipeline within HDLink to fix this camera. This whole progressive frames in 60i was cause the upstream decoders (not CineForm) to do the 4:2:0 decoding wrong cause weird chroma artifact, but that is all solved. Simple convert in HDLink / NeoScene will progressive enabled and the results are really good. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 5th, 2010, 10:04 PM	#9
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I've had no problem with VG footage by telling HDLink that files are a 30p source. I'm getting full rez conversions w/ good preview quality, etc. Final renders to delivery look good too- from web to Blu Ray. I haven't used 5.2.2.281 yet, but I'm assuming it's the same procedure. __________________ Bob