No sound in Premier Pro CS5 for Cineform avis converted from AVCHD files at DVinfo.net

Steve Pesenti · July 17th, 2010, 08:57 PM

I have just converted a set of AVCHD files to Cineform AVIs with HDLink. The AVCHD files have been recorded with a 5.1 soundtrack. I have installed the AC3 Filter to provide the 5.1 codec for HD Link conversion.

The Cineform AVIs play back fine in Windows Media Player, but when imported into Premiere Pro CS5 they play back with a full picture but no sound.

Any ideas what is happening here?

Steve Pesenti · July 18th, 2010, 04:53 AM

I have now tested further with some similar Cineform avi files that previously played audio fine with Premiere CS3 / Prospect HD plug-in, but now play without sound in Premiere CS5 and Neo 4K.

So it would seem to be an issue with Premier CS5 recognising the Cineform avi properly, maybe? Has anyone else seen this issue?

Edwin Baldwin · July 18th, 2010, 09:05 AM

I can duplicate the problem PP CS5 with NeoHD and AC3 filter set to 5.1. If I set AC3 filter to 2.0 it plays fine in PP CS5. If I load the same CF 5.1 file in Vegas 9.0e there is no audio track loaded. The CF 2.0 file loads fine in Vegas.

Ed B

Tim Kolb · July 18th, 2010, 10:16 AM

The CineForm product and version you're using has to be compatible with CS5.

If you have a compatible version of Prospect or NEO, I know that (at least in NEO) there is a utility called "CFRepair" that seems to update older CineForm files to work properly with newer versions. I actually recently converted some "AspectHD" files from years ago...and it worked fine.

...I'm not sure if the NLE notifies you, but I know that FirstLight told me that the clip needs a metadata update through "CFRepair" in a dialog box.

Steve Pesenti · July 18th, 2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin Baldwin

I can duplicate the problem PP CS5 with NeoHD and AC3 filter set to 5.1. If I set AC3 filter to 2.0 it plays fine in PP CS5. If I load the same CF 5.1 file in Vegas 9.0e there is no audio track loaded. The CF 2.0 file loads fine in Vegas.

Ed B

Ed - Thanks, if I adjust the AC3 Filter from 5.1 to 2.0 and convert AVCHD through HD Link I get CF2.0 files that now play stereo audio in PP CS5 just as you say.

It looks like Premiere CS5 may be putting some tighter retrictions on acceptable codec than CS3 did - now blocking the CF5.1 produced by HD Link / AC3.

Guess this leaves two questions...

1. As I have archives containing both CF5.1 and CF2.0 formats. Is there a way to translate the CF5.1 files into a usable form. Maybe put them through HDLink again and convert to CF2.0?

2 Also is there an alternative filter to the AC3 to create a CF5.1 format from AVCHD sources with HD Link that is compatible with PP CS5?

Jake Segraves · July 19th, 2010, 06:05 PM

is the source file mono? steve, i got your converted avi file. can you send me the source file too? thanks.

Edwin Baldwin · July 21st, 2010, 03:55 PM

I converted a AVCHD 5.1 to CF 5.1 with TMPGEnc 4 and imported the file in PP CS5. PP recogized the DD 5.1 and no audio, the same as with HDLink. When the audio was extracted in Soundbooth the audio tracks were empty. Next I converted the same AVCHD 5.1 to Uncompressed RGB 5.1 avi and imported the file in PP CS5. PP recognized and played the 5.1 audio and all the audio tracks were there when extracted in Soundbooth. TMPGEnc uses it's own DD certified codec.

Ed B

Steve Pesenti · July 21st, 2010, 04:13 PM

I have been playing with this a bit further too and have now reinstalled my old Prospect HD v4 on the same computer running as plug-in to CS3 as well as having Neo 4K still installed. With both Cineform products installed it seems this CF5.1 file will now play in CS5 too!

Not sure this is good practice. It looks like Prospect HD has overwriiten the new version of First Light included with Neo 4K. But I wonder whether there is something different with both Cineform products installed. i.e. there is something present in Prospect HD allowing the 5.1 file to be decoded which is not in Neo?

Anyway I have now also posted a ticket with Cineform. So will wait to see what they can deduce.

Jake Segraves · July 21st, 2010, 05:17 PM

okay discount my previous post, as the files are clearly not mono. however, edwin points out that setting AC3filter to convert at 5.1 creates file that the NLE"s don't like to play, even though media player and other players can use them. That makes sense because these other players are accessing AC3 decoders on the system. But this is not the standard cineform workflow. You should have the AC3Filter to convert to stereo. That's the only setting that will produce CineForm files suitable for Vegas and Premiere.

Helmut Blokesch · August 6th, 2010, 02:48 AM

Hello, I'm new here and struggling since month with the 5.1 sound from my AVCHD camera.
When I convert my videofiles with CF I get excellent pictures but only sound in stereo. It doesn't matter wether I import to CS4 or CS5 the sound is always only in stereo. I installed already the AC3filter but it's the same result.
I guess there is no way to keep the 5.1 sound from AVCHD-files when I convert them with CF. Is this right, or maybe I'm too stupid to find a way?

Steve Pesenti · August 6th, 2010, 02:40 PM

Yes, advice from Cineform is that HD Link with AC3 filter is only intended to produce stereo files. However, I did find previously that 5.1 AVCHD sound did convert to CF 5.1 under Prospect HD v4. But this no longer happens with Neo 4K v5. So whatever unintended loophole enabled this to happen in Prospect appears to have disappeared in Neo. I think you are stuck with stereo if you use Cineform.

Chris Sigmon · August 9th, 2010, 08:55 AM

I have need to convert MTS files shot on my Sony NX5's to the cineform AVI's and edit in Premier Pro CS5. I, like the other posters can convert the video fine, but there is no audio. One of the files I converted was shot with the PCM audio set, while the other was with the dolby audio set. Neither seems to have any audio in the avi when you put it on the Premier Pro Timeline.

Do I need an ac3 filter ? The installation didn't tell me that.

If any of you have solved this problem, I'd love for you to share the step by step directions that you followed, along with any other software you may have needed to get everything to work.

Thanks in advance..

Chris Sigmon
LifeSong Video Productions, LLC

Bill Bryant · August 9th, 2010, 10:59 AM

Chris check out this post I started last week, they still have not resolved the issue...http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform...pcm-audio.html

Alex Raskin · August 19th, 2010, 05:42 PM

Did you try converting AVCHD files into Cineform using Adobe Media Encoder? It is a new encoding engine that works standalone as well, and is part of CS5 (comes with Premiere, for example.)

Steve Pesenti · August 19th, 2010, 06:04 PM

Chris - See this link in the Cineform Tech notes on AVCHD conversion. It includes a section on the AC3 decoder if you are having audio decode problems which might help.

Cineform Tech Blog Blog Archive Converting AVCHD Files to CineForm Intermediate

July 17th, 2010, 08:57 PM	#1
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	No sound in Premier Pro CS5 for Cineform avis converted from AVCHD files I have just converted a set of AVCHD files to Cineform AVIs with HDLink. The AVCHD files have been recorded with a 5.1 soundtrack. I have installed the AC3 Filter to provide the 5.1 codec for HD Link conversion. The Cineform AVIs play back fine in Windows Media Player, but when imported into Premiere Pro CS5 they play back with a full picture but no sound. Any ideas what is happening here?

July 18th, 2010, 09:05 AM	#3
Edwin Baldwin Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Endicott New York Posts: 54	I can duplicate the problem PP CS5 with NeoHD and AC3 filter set to 5.1. If I set AC3 filter to 2.0 it plays fine in PP CS5. If I load the same CF 5.1 file in Vegas 9.0e there is no audio track loaded. The CF 2.0 file loads fine in Vegas. Ed B Last edited by Edwin Baldwin; July 18th, 2010 at 09:41 AM.

July 18th, 2010, 10:16 AM	#4
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	The CineForm product and version you're using has to be compatible with CS5. If you have a compatible version of Prospect or NEO, I know that (at least in NEO) there is a utility called "CFRepair" that seems to update older CineForm files to work properly with newer versions. I actually recently converted some "AspectHD" files from years ago...and it worked fine. ...I'm not sure if the NLE notifies you, but I know that FirstLight told me that the clip needs a metadata update through "CFRepair" in a dialog box. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 9th, 2010, 08:55 AM	#12
Chris Sigmon Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 26	So was there a fix? I have need to convert MTS files shot on my Sony NX5's to the cineform AVI's and edit in Premier Pro CS5. I, like the other posters can convert the video fine, but there is no audio. One of the files I converted was shot with the PCM audio set, while the other was with the dolby audio set. Neither seems to have any audio in the avi when you put it on the Premier Pro Timeline. Do I need an ac3 filter ? The installation didn't tell me that. If any of you have solved this problem, I'd love for you to share the step by step directions that you followed, along with any other software you may have needed to get everything to work. Thanks in advance.. Chris Sigmon LifeSong Video Productions, LLC __________________ LifeSong Video Productions, LLC http://www.lifesongvideoproductions.com

July 18th, 2010, 04:53 AM	#2
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	I have now tested further with some similar Cineform avi files that previously played audio fine with Premiere CS3 / Prospect HD plug-in, but now play without sound in Premiere CS5 and Neo 4K. So it would seem to be an issue with Premier CS5 recognising the Cineform avi properly, maybe? Has anyone else seen this issue?

July 19th, 2010, 06:05 PM	#6
Jake Segraves Sponsor: CineForm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 153	is the source file mono? steve, i got your converted avi file. can you send me the source file too? thanks.

July 21st, 2010, 03:55 PM	#7
Edwin Baldwin Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Endicott New York Posts: 54	I converted a AVCHD 5.1 to CF 5.1 with TMPGEnc 4 and imported the file in PP CS5. PP recogized the DD 5.1 and no audio, the same as with HDLink. When the audio was extracted in Soundbooth the audio tracks were empty. Next I converted the same AVCHD 5.1 to Uncompressed RGB 5.1 avi and imported the file in PP CS5. PP recognized and played the 5.1 audio and all the audio tracks were there when extracted in Soundbooth. TMPGEnc uses it's own DD certified codec. Ed B

July 21st, 2010, 04:13 PM	#8
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	I have been playing with this a bit further too and have now reinstalled my old Prospect HD v4 on the same computer running as plug-in to CS3 as well as having Neo 4K still installed. With both Cineform products installed it seems this CF5.1 file will now play in CS5 too! Not sure this is good practice. It looks like Prospect HD has overwriiten the new version of First Light included with Neo 4K. But I wonder whether there is something different with both Cineform products installed. i.e. there is something present in Prospect HD allowing the 5.1 file to be decoded which is not in Neo? Anyway I have now also posted a ticket with Cineform. So will wait to see what they can deduce.

July 21st, 2010, 05:17 PM	#9
Jake Segraves Sponsor: CineForm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 153	okay discount my previous post, as the files are clearly not mono. however, edwin points out that setting AC3filter to convert at 5.1 creates file that the NLE"s don't like to play, even though media player and other players can use them. That makes sense because these other players are accessing AC3 decoders on the system. But this is not the standard cineform workflow. You should have the AC3Filter to convert to stereo. That's the only setting that will produce CineForm files suitable for Vegas and Premiere.

August 6th, 2010, 02:48 AM	#10
Helmut Blokesch Tourist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 3	Hello, I'm new here and struggling since month with the 5.1 sound from my AVCHD camera. When I convert my videofiles with CF I get excellent pictures but only sound in stereo. It doesn't matter wether I import to CS4 or CS5 the sound is always only in stereo. I installed already the AC3filter but it's the same result. I guess there is no way to keep the 5.1 sound from AVCHD-files when I convert them with CF. Is this right, or maybe I'm too stupid to find a way?

August 6th, 2010, 02:40 PM	#11
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	Yes, advice from Cineform is that HD Link with AC3 filter is only intended to produce stereo files. However, I did find previously that 5.1 AVCHD sound did convert to CF 5.1 under Prospect HD v4. But this no longer happens with Neo 4K v5. So whatever unintended loophole enabled this to happen in Prospect appears to have disappeared in Neo. I think you are stuck with stereo if you use Cineform.

August 9th, 2010, 10:59 AM	#13
Bill Bryant Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bay Shore, NY Posts: 30	Chris check out this post I started last week, they still have not resolved the issue...http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform...pcm-audio.html

August 19th, 2010, 05:42 PM	#14
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Did you try converting AVCHD files into Cineform using Adobe Media Encoder? It is a new encoding engine that works standalone as well, and is part of CS5 (comes with Premiere, for example.)

August 19th, 2010, 06:04 PM	#15
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	Chris - See this link in the Cineform Tech notes on AVCHD conversion. It includes a section on the AC3 decoder if you are having audio decode problems which might help. Cineform Tech Blog Blog Archive Converting AVCHD Files to CineForm Intermediate