Cineform and CS5 Encode Issues

[Ryan Lindsey]

Good news!

David, thanks again for your time! Cineform is a great product and the support seems equally impressive. Unfortunately, like Gregor, deleting the Cineform importer had no affect.

However, I did re-encode all of the original clips using the current HDLink and it appears to have solved the problem. I am currently encoding now and progressing well beyond the 3% mark without any issues.

Marty and James, you have saved me and I am beyond grateful to you both! Thank you.

Gregor, I hope you find a solution. Hopefully, this information will be useful to you.

Some items of interest:
I've noticed my processor usage has dropped drastically. It now hovers around 50% usage or less during the encoding process, whereas before it would max out. RAM usage is consistant with before. Nothing else has been changed on my setup. I am using the same project file with the same settings re-linked to the new Cineform clips.

One last question, does re-encoding with the current HDLink follow the same compression as the original Cineform codec, or will I be losing a percentage of information because I am doing an additional compression?

[Chuck McIntyre]

Ryan:

I am using Premiere CS5 and downloaded the trial of Cineform's Neo4k. I encoded some files in a test project and the clips played back fine from the timeline. So.. I went to one of our actual projects in progress. The clips on the timeline that were playing back poorly were Quicktimes encoded with the "Animation" codec. In the actual project, I did a "Replace Footage" command and replaced the QuickTimes in the bin with the CineForm encoded avi's. I did this for three clips that were layered on the timeline as an initial test. As I begin to play this segment of the timeline, the video plays for about 100 frames, then the CTI stops along with the video playback but the audio continues to play. Premiere freezes and I need to re-boot.

I have posted this issue in the Adobe Premiere CS5 forum tonight. I will see if there is a solution.

Adobe Forums: Video for Staging Event

Here is the most relevent post:

We downloaded the trial of Cineform Neo4k and installed it on one of our editing systems. I converted a 2560 x 540 file encoded in the "Animation" codec to the CineForm Neo4k codec. It played back much smoother from the timeline in a test sequence than the QuickTime file did. So... I installed the trial of Neo4k on our system that has the actual project we are working on and batch converted all of the QuickTime files to the Cineform Neo4k codec in an avi wrapper.
I found 3 layers of QuickTimes on the timeline of the actual project and did a "Reveal in Project", then replaced the 3 QT clips in the "Bin" using the "Replace Footage" command.
Now when the CTI hits the 3 Cineform Neo4k clips on the timeline, the CTI stops, the video freezes, the audio continues to play and Premiere crashes.
Obviously it's the Cineform clips. I'm wondering if there were some files originally associated with the original QuickTimes on the timeline that need to get deleted because Premiere is associating those files with the new Cineform files?
A guy in another forum appears to be having the identical problem... CS5, footage replaced with Cineform encoded files on the timeline using the "Replace Footage" command.
My thinking is, either it's a bug CineForm needs to deal with, or I need to delete some files that were formerly associated with the original QuickTimes that were originally on the timeline.


Any thoughts?

[David Newman]

We have found this playback freeze and are working on the best solution now (we have one that works, working on an cleaner solution for this next release -- 5.0.3 is waiting for it.)

This works. Replace
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Premiere Pro CS5\Plug-ins\Common\CineForm\CFHD_AVI_Importer.prm
and
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Common\Plug-ins\CS5\MediaCore\CineForm\CFHD_AVI_Importer.prm

with the contents of:
http://www.cineform.com/downloads/CF...porterV503.zip

[Paul Curtis]

I'm experiencing what could be a similar issue with a new CS5 project referencing some older cineform files. I'm still trying to isolate exactly what it causing the problem by trial and error.

I'd like to make the comment that it's very difficult to find current up to date details with options and settings. The PDF with v5 is from v3 for example and the cineform sites aren't the easiest.

For example there are playback settings in CS5 for cineform that i can't find documented anywhere (various GL options) I have no idea what would be best for my system.

My problem (so far) is that i have a sequence of mixed footage in CS5 (XDCAM, H264 and old cineform files). The sequence setting is set XDCAM (prior to buying Neo v5) and i was using neo scene to read the old files. This works fine.

I decided to get back on board with cineform and upgraded to Neo v5. Now in the same set up as above it's fine.

But if i create a new sequence in the project and use a cineform preset and copy and paste the timeline all hell breaks loose and PPro just quits randomly. I am trying to work out exactly at what point it fails but it takes time as i have to restart between crashes as PPro won't open a second time. Prior to finding this i'd also tried replacing all my mixed footage with cineform versions which produced crashes too.

I may try to reconvert old prospect files into new versions via HDLink.

if i remove Neo then all is well again. If i don't use cineform as the sequence setting then it *seems* okay, but obviously i need to change it.

It's proving tough to narrow down the problem, it would be fantastic if there were some error logs generated! Or whether there could be a debugging switch to log operations in general. I remember going through all of this with Prospect v3 and narrowing down problems files is such a time waster.

In reference to the original post. I have big issues with prospect v3 which turned out to be audio issues within the files. I had to rewrap the audio with VirtuDub to get things working again. (I'd originally created the problem by editing the audio separately)

cheers
paul

[Patrick Zaw]

Dave,

I've upgraded as suggested above and also installed NeoScene 5.0.3.259 codec version 6.2.7.462 but the CineForm codecs are still freezing on the timeline when there is grading or effects applied to it. A simple test i'm able to reproduce it is doing a cross fade between two clips by setting the opacity levels. It also happens when multiple clips are color graded with a gradient type effect or vignette using just the CS5 grading effects or with Magic Bullet Looks 1.4.

Is anyone else having this problem? If there are no effects or grading everything plays back fine. I'm only having the issue with CineForm codecs and am able to grade any other codec without a problem,

[Paul Curtis]

Patrick,

Yes, i'm having the very same problem as i posted on another thread. I've managed to get two different machines/installations to fail in the same way. It's a very simple thing to test and i'd like to get feedback from others because i have to assume it's such a fundamental issue that most people cannot be seeing it!

Anytime I use the cineform RT engine (either via a preset or create your own) whenever there is some rendering to be done the rendered files do not play within CS5. If you find those files outside and play, they run normally.

if you switch to using a different preset, no cineform RT engine then they will render normally.

cheers
paul

[Paul Curtis]

Finally just swapped my graphics card (those GTX 285 are rather large, had to rearrange the entire PC)

I can report that so far it seems like the refusing to play and stuttering has stopped! I will spend the day working tomorrow and try out some of the other problems i had.

But this is an area worth looking at. I previously had a FireGL v5600 card now a GTX 285. All the standard stuff worked okay on the FireGL but cineform encoding and playback within premiere produced frozen frames and stuttering. Those same files outside of premiere played find in the movie player.

Now i just need to see if this has solved a crash with some old cineform files, although that could be a different problem...

But good news so far...

paul

[Brett Munoz]

Originally Posted by Gregor Schober

Looks like i have a similar problem here ;-(

Encoding just hangs up at certain points, Premiere CPU & Disk IO goes to zero.
Deleting "CFHD_AVI_Importer.prm" did not help.

Just happens with Cineform Preset Timelines and Cineform Export.
CS5 presets with m2t clips and export to other codecs is working without any problems at all.

Looks like this happens more often with GPU-acceleration enabled, software-only works now and then.
I can reproduce the hangup every time with 3 layers of video with
- no effect at layer1
- gradient wipe at layer2
- additive dissolve at layer 3
- CPU acceleration enabled

I filled in a trouble ticket ...

I am experiencing this exact same issue. Disk and CPU usage goes to zero and my export just hangs. I have tried it via Export and via Media Encoder. I am using 5d and xh-a1 footage that was encoded via cineform neo 4k. Are you saying I should disable GPU acceleration?

[Paul Curtis]

Brett,

I've not got to the bottom of it. I did find swapping from a FireGL to GTX285 i saw less stuttering but every now and again i see a freeze.

Are you running on a sequence set to cineform RT?

If you preview the entire sequence (render it) does it work okay?

If not then try creating a normal sequence (say XDCAM 1080p) and copy and paste your edits onto that and try rendering/exporting from there.

I'm in a situation where i cannot use a cineform preset or create my own one without PPro crashing out. yet the same edits on a normal sequence seem okay. It's pretty weird.

I'm talking to support but hoping on here to find similarities with other people which might help narrow down the issue.

cheers
paul

[Brett Munoz]

Originally Posted by Paul Curtis

Brett,

I've not got to the bottom of it. I did find swapping from a FireGL to GTX285 i saw less stuttering but every now and again i see a freeze.

Are you running on a sequence set to cineform RT?

If you preview the entire sequence (render it) does it work okay?

If not then try creating a normal sequence (say XDCAM 1080p) and copy and paste your edits onto that and try rendering/exporting from there.

I'm in a situation where i cannot use a cineform preset or create my own one without PPro crashing out. yet the same edits on a normal sequence seem okay. It's pretty weird.

I'm talking to support but hoping on here to find similarities with other people which might help narrow down the issue.

cheers
paul

I have the 285 GTX 2G Ram installed. I have no issues playing, my issue is with exporting. It crashes on the same spot every time (about 4 seconds into the export). I think the issue for me is going to be when I use Magic Bullet with Cineform encoded material. Still need to do more testing.

[Paul Curtis]

In the past when i've had exporting issues it is sometimes the video files *ahead* of the point that it crashes. It sounds like there's a corrupt file in there. If you start removing files and effects can you get to a point where it starts rendering?

If it's repeatable then it should be possible to narrow it down. Good luck!

Oh and i've used magic bullet and cineform together a lot in the past with no problems. Unless there's something new in CS5 causing a new problem.

[Brett Munoz]

Originally Posted by Paul Curtis

In the past when i've had exporting issues it is sometimes the video files *ahead* of the point that it crashes. It sounds like there's a corrupt file in there. If you start removing files and effects can you get to a point where it starts rendering?

If it's repeatable then it should be possible to narrow it down. Good luck!

Oh and i've used magic bullet and cineform together a lot in the past with no problems. Unless there's something new in CS5 causing a new problem.

Yeah, it was working fine in CS4. This is my first export using all three (CS5, Neo & MB Looks) on my new i7 desktop. If anyone else is having this issue, please post. I will follow up with results from testing later today.

[Paul Curtis]

Well i've just had MBL hang the timeline (i think, it's tough to say when PPro just stops responding the exact cause). Have you had anything like that?

I've avoided using MBL whilst trying to sort out some of the cineform issues i've seen (to reduce the possibilities) but perhaps MBL is another link in the chain?

[Brett Munoz]

Via process of elimination, I have come to the conlusion that crossfades are causing my exports to fail but I can't figure out why?

[Paul Curtis]

And if you render them on the timeline they work okay? What is your sequence setting for this timeline? If it's a cineform preset then i wonder if it's the same cineform that is used to render? If it's not a cineform preset then your preview files are being rendered to another codec.

How about other effects, would they fail too?

Are you exporting in cineform? If so, then try a different format, that would isolate whether it's an encoding issue or decoding of the files?

cheers
paul