Workflow Dynamics: Adobe CS5, Cineform Neo 4K, AJA LHi

[Greg Kubitschek]

This is a plea for some guidance in getting my workflow together.

I've been around Adobe and Cineform for a long time, but I am new to AJA cards. I have installed a LHi card with their newly released v.5 software. My computer, a dual Quad core with 20 Gigs of Ram and windows 7 64 bit, works fine with Premiere and Cineform. But where is this great integration with AJA?

I contacted Cineform and they said that would be an AJA function - contact them. I did, asnd AJA says, and I quote " We talked about this at a meeting before we released version 5 and all third party issues will have to be taken up with those vendors." Okay, now this leaves me, the consumer, stuck once again in the crossfire of three companies and I think it is really stupid.

How do you time line monitor Premiere? Where are the presets to accept Cineform or have the Cineform integration with the AJA card? This all seems to unneccasarily complex in set up.

I want to be sure that my HDV is using the Cineform codec. When I choose this in the setup menu, there are no AJA centered playback screens unlocked. Of course these playback screen options are unlocked if you choose an AJA preset, but then there is no Cineform.

If there is someone out there that has this combination of equipment in their workflow, I'd love to get an honest, straight up operating workflow answer.

Thanks

Greg Kubitschek

[David Newman]

When AJA releases CS5 support look for native CineForm -- no crossfire, they just hadn't released it yet -- we are working with AJA on this.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

I'm sitting in the same boat as you Greg, I await the full support of Cineform/AJA/CS5 before I buy CS5.

Need a Pro system, not one almost "Pro" system like CS4 SAGA!!!

I'm still in CS3 and Prospect HD with AJA support.

Regards
Mikael

[Stephen Armour]

Can anyone say "bleeding edge"?

So sorry....I got tired of blood loss and am with Mikael and CS3 for now...

[Greg Kubitschek]

Boy did we all bleed dry with CS4!

So far CS5 Premiere Pro is good. Much more stable, and with all the RAM you can throw at it, it seems to quiet down and obey. The AJA LHi card works good too. Even with the new 5.0 CS5 release of the software they had last week. Time line monitoring works, with the right combination of settings, and using HDV over the HDMI output of my Canon HV30. It is combining the two that is the last real hurdle. Being able to select CIneform output somewhere to monitor the project that is orginally Cineform. The reduced data rates of the CIneform files, the wonderful use of First Light makes CS5 and Cineform a good marriage - Finally. Once a few final updates, like HD link, get accomplished, We will all have solid performance again.

Greg Kubitschek

[Mikael Bergstrom]

David, how long will it take until you have the support for the AJA now that their latest software 5.0 supports CS5?

PS AJA has support for the MPE, so sweet:-)

Regards
Mikael

[Tim Kolb]

We were running CineForm software on AJA systems in the AJA booth at NAB, both Windows and Mac...the 3d workflow seems like one of the most elegant approaches I've ever seen. It wasn't a complex thing to set up a project at all. Once the drivers are released I think you'll find it works inside the NLE you're using (PPro or FCP) similar to what you're used to from a user-interaction perspective.

It was all prerelease software at the tradeshow of course, but it didn't seem very temperamental to me. I would guess that these drivers are not far out...

(Though I am not privvy to any actual timelines with either AJA or CineForm on a corporate level of course.)

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Tim, do you know if Machina and Cineform can coexist, be installed at the same time, it was not possible before?

Thought the driver was released from AJA? the ver.5.0???

Regars
Mikael

[Tim Kolb]

I know we had Machina on the PC I was demo'ing on...and I was in CineForm 3d material most of the time...

I have to look at drivers versions and circle back...

(I'm getting ready to get in the studio to do the Class On Demand CS5 training for ProdPrem and PPro and my brain is overflowing with version numbers for various plugins and hardware drivers...)

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Thanks Tim

Good luck with your "Class On project". :-)

Regards
Mikael

[Tim Kolb]

Thanks Mikael...

I should note that I did not witness anything that was a problem with having Machine and CineForm NEO 3D on the same machine...

There are of course, always scenarios that happen for a first time somewhere... I just know that I ran them both (both AJAs CS5 drivers and I believe the version of CineForm we were running were prerelease)...so they were on the machine.

So...I guess I just don't want to speak for CineForm or AJA on that front and appear to make a specific guarantee of some sort. But I got no indication that there was a problem...I had an LHi AND a KONA 3 in that machine and had Vegas available on there as well...it was a festival.

In PPro, you can toggle back and forth between the two Kona cards within the work session for situations where you need ALL the I/O options...it was fun.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Sweet Tim:-)

I have a similar studio that you have (like the picture you showed in a previous thread) with 2 24 "LCD DELL true colors and a Pro JVC SD monitor with GENELEC 1031A

This is my PC setup:
Intel I7 920
ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 (X58 chipset)
Corsair 1600MHz 12GB of RAM
A dedicated PCIe x 8 raid card Adaptec 3085 with four Seagate 1TB in a external RAID 5 (Almost video 4TB disk space).
One SSD G2 Intel C drive.
AJA KONA LHi.
One RME soundcard HDSPe AIO.
I'm will buy Nvidia Quad 4800 for the MPE (I Have now the AMD/ATI 5870).
I hope it will fly with Cineform/AJA and CS5

Regards
Mikael

[Tim Kolb]

I have a 4800 Mac (same board...two DL DVI ports instead of Display port and DL DVI...same drivers on a PC) and I'm changing out my LH card for an LHi (in progress) and I'm using CineForm...

Withe the prep for training, I have software applications builds and various hardware components going in and out of this machine so frequently, I haven't settled into a set configuration yet...

I have no idea why it wouldn't work, but if I run into an issue, I'll note it.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Cool Tim, I use to have a Mac a long time ago:-)

Just saw this in the new AJA 5.0 manual, although they still mention Prospect HD???

"Note: For users who want to use both the CineForm Premiere Pro plugins for compressed workflow and the KONA Premiere Pro plugins for uncompressed workflow:
Because the CineForm Prospect HD plugins are dependent on older versions of the AJA Hardware drivers, it is necessary to have a dual-boot configuration if both Prospec/Neo and KONA plugins will be used. The KONA plugins must be installed on one bootable partition, and the CineForm plugins installed on the other."

Strange???

Regards
Mikael

[Tim Kolb]

I have a PC...it's just that they only make the 4800 with two DL DVI ports labeled as the "For Mac" version.

Same card...PC drivers...Done deal. (i was a Mac user in the 90s as well)

Strange...no, not really. I ran under dual-boot in CS3. CineForm and other OEM developers had a version of the AJA drivers they would develop for...and AJA would keep on modifying/improving the retail drivers, so the retail and OEM drivers often were different and they often did not like each other.

Most users in the past were either CineForm users or uncompressed and I don't know how many of us actually ran this way to keep a foot in both camps, but it really wasn't a big deal...it worked fine and I'd install the CineForm player on the AJA retail side so i could still read any CineForm files I needed to over there...

Howewver, I think that CineForm's approach has changed, and as systems have gotten more powerful David N. tells me that the dual boot approach is no longer an issue as CineForm has modified how it retrieves frames and plays them out. (He'll need to explain it), which means that the two are no longer in conflict.

I suspect that that line may be a bit out of date, but let me follow that up...