HD VfW Controls settings at DVinfo.net

Jan Cannon · April 12th, 2010, 07:06 PM

Is there a default setting for these controls and what are there situations where you would use one setting instead of another? I am working on an hour long project with Cineform files and have a number of different sections which I render out to Cineform AVIs to later render to Mpeg for Blu-ray. I've been having problems in getting a few glitchy little things in random places in the rendered AVI file. I can do work arounds like cutting the glitch out of the final render and putting in the unglitchy bit from what I originally rendered. All of this has led me to question the HD Vfw Controls settings and how it should be set. Maybe that's my problem.

Thanks.

Jay Bloomfield · April 13th, 2010, 05:29 PM

It might help if you could post a frame capture of one of the "glitchy little things in random places". You're better off on this kind of issue to file a ticket with Cineform support. In any case, I doubt that any of the VFW codec settings would cause that type of random problem. I attached the codec's property sheet. The first two items have to do with color, the second of which should be left as the default for HD. The third item is if you are working with 4:2:2 material, but that should only affect the decode. The three bottom items affect the encoding to CFHD, but they only control file size/quality, progressive/interlaced and pixel aspect ratio (1:1 for 1920x1080, etc and 1.333 for HDV formats). In general, you should use High HD for the quality setting.

Jan Cannon · April 13th, 2010, 07:24 PM

Thanks for the information. I think I can describe a little better what is going on and it wouldn't be evident in a frame grab as it is a motion effect. In the first instance there is a shaky, stuttering, glitchy effect over a 4 second period, just very stuttery motion. The shot is of pine needles floating in a stream and very out of focus pine needles swaying in the wind in the foreground. In this same instance, 4 frames from the end cut of the take a complete frame from the incoming take flashes for a frame. In the other instance I just have the shaky, stuttery, glitchy effect over about a 7 second period and then it smooths out. This shot is of a flock of geese taking off so their is quite a bit of motion.

I did file a ticket with Cineform but haven't heard anything.

Thanks for replying.

Jay Bloomfield · April 14th, 2010, 08:05 PM

You might not hear for a few days, as they are at NAB. In the mean time ... Have you tried different media players and NLEs to play the file? Sometimes, it's a playback issue with specific software. I doubt that's it, but it's worth a shot. The NLE VirtualDub and the players Apple Quicktime Player and Media Player Classic all will play CFHD AVI files and are freeware. Google them to find the download locations.

Jan Cannon · April 15th, 2010, 09:05 AM

Jay, Jake contacted me and said that he'd get on this when he returned from NAB on Friday. I have attached two examples of the problem. I guess words just don't do the effect justice.

Also it's not a player problem as the problem is showing up on my Vegas timeline. My workaround is to replace this glitchy bit with the same bit from my original source material, where there wasn't any problem, and that works fine. It's just a pain.

Jay Bloomfield · April 15th, 2010, 08:52 PM

I can't say that I've ever seen that with any of my Cineform files. It almost looks like something on your PC (anti-virus, etc.) was running when you did the encoding and caused some kind of momentary glitch.

BTW, my wife and I used to live on Orchard Road in Charlotte, VT. I loved to watch the thunderstorms come rumbling down from the Adirondacks and onto the Lake.

Jan Cannon · April 16th, 2010, 08:03 AM

Something going on with my PC while rendering is certainly a possibility. But it doesn't happen on similarly lengthy renders to mpeg for Blu-ray. So I am not convinced that that is it.

Yes, Charlotte is a great place. If you ever get back over this way stop by for a cup of coffee.

Geoff Gartside · April 19th, 2010, 02:42 AM

Hi, Not sure about the geese, but the first clip (pine needles) looks very similar to a problem we come across often with slow camera movements - pannining slowly across a scene the playback stutters.

We (UK) have the added problem of 25fps projects and mismatched 60Hz monitors, but it seems to me that it's the same situation with your pine needles - everything in the shot is in a slightly different place in each consecutive frame. Perhaps the codec doesn't like that because it has no stable reference to a previous frame? Perhaps someone who undertands codecs has an opinion?

Media Player Classic - Home Theatre plays back cineform very well for us, and it has loads of options for tweaking things!

Good luck with a solution.

April 12th, 2010, 07:06 PM	#1
Jan Cannon New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 18	HD VfW Controls settings Is there a default setting for these controls and what are there situations where you would use one setting instead of another? I am working on an hour long project with Cineform files and have a number of different sections which I render out to Cineform AVIs to later render to Mpeg for Blu-ray. I've been having problems in getting a few glitchy little things in random places in the rendered AVI file. I can do work arounds like cutting the glitch out of the final render and putting in the unglitchy bit from what I originally rendered. All of this has led me to question the HD Vfw Controls settings and how it should be set. Maybe that's my problem. Thanks.

April 13th, 2010, 05:29 PM	#2
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	It might help if you could post a frame capture of one of the "glitchy little things in random places". You're better off on this kind of issue to file a ticket with Cineform support. In any case, I doubt that any of the VFW codec settings would cause that type of random problem. I attached the codec's property sheet. The first two items have to do with color, the second of which should be left as the default for HD. The third item is if you are working with 4:2:2 material, but that should only affect the decode. The three bottom items affect the encoding to CFHD, but they only control file size/quality, progressive/interlaced and pixel aspect ratio (1:1 for 1920x1080, etc and 1.333 for HDV formats). In general, you should use High HD for the quality setting. Attached Thumbnails

April 13th, 2010, 07:24 PM	#3
Jan Cannon New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 18	Thanks for the information. I think I can describe a little better what is going on and it wouldn't be evident in a frame grab as it is a motion effect. In the first instance there is a shaky, stuttering, glitchy effect over a 4 second period, just very stuttery motion. The shot is of pine needles floating in a stream and very out of focus pine needles swaying in the wind in the foreground. In this same instance, 4 frames from the end cut of the take a complete frame from the incoming take flashes for a frame. In the other instance I just have the shaky, stuttery, glitchy effect over about a 7 second period and then it smooths out. This shot is of a flock of geese taking off so their is quite a bit of motion. I did file a ticket with Cineform but haven't heard anything. Thanks for replying.

April 14th, 2010, 08:05 PM	#4
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	You might not hear for a few days, as they are at NAB. In the mean time ... Have you tried different media players and NLEs to play the file? Sometimes, it's a playback issue with specific software. I doubt that's it, but it's worth a shot. The NLE VirtualDub and the players Apple Quicktime Player and Media Player Classic all will play CFHD AVI files and are freeware. Google them to find the download locations.

April 15th, 2010, 08:52 PM	#6
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	I can't say that I've ever seen that with any of my Cineform files. It almost looks like something on your PC (anti-virus, etc.) was running when you did the encoding and caused some kind of momentary glitch. BTW, my wife and I used to live on Orchard Road in Charlotte, VT. I loved to watch the thunderstorms come rumbling down from the Adirondacks and onto the Lake.

April 16th, 2010, 08:03 AM	#7
Jan Cannon New Boot Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 18	Something going on with my PC while rendering is certainly a possibility. But it doesn't happen on similarly lengthy renders to mpeg for Blu-ray. So I am not convinced that that is it. Yes, Charlotte is a great place. If you ever get back over this way stop by for a cup of coffee.

April 19th, 2010, 02:42 AM	#8
Geoff Gartside Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Llangernyw Posts: 38	Hi, Not sure about the geese, but the first clip (pine needles) looks very similar to a problem we come across often with slow camera movements - pannining slowly across a scene the playback stutters. We (UK) have the added problem of 25fps projects and mismatched 60Hz monitors, but it seems to me that it's the same situation with your pine needles - everything in the shot is in a slightly different place in each consecutive frame. Perhaps the codec doesn't like that because it has no stable reference to a previous frame? Perhaps someone who undertands codecs has an opinion? Media Player Classic - Home Theatre plays back cineform very well for us, and it has loads of options for tweaking things! Good luck with a solution.