CineForm/NeoScene questions

[David Kennedy]

Are any of you using the CineForm/NeoScene software to convert AVCHD files for editing in Premiere Pro CS4?

I'm having some trouble with figuring out the basic work-flow. Can't find an instruction book.


Many thanks,

David Kennedy
Platypus New Orleans 2008

[David Newman]

1) From the start menu launch NeoScene
2) Load any or all your AvCHD files (*.MTS or *.m2ts) into NeoScene.
3) use "Prefs" panel to select conversion option (most defaults are fine.)
4) Press Start to batch convert your files.
5) Import the resulting AVIs into Premiere CS4, and edit away.

[David Taylor]

David K, there is also a PDF manual for Neo Scene that is installed. You'll find it in the CineForm folder under Start Menu.

[David Kennedy]

My files play really jerky and the sound is not synced up in CS4 sequence line. They are also pretty dark. thanks, dk

[David Newman]

The levels will match the source, although less contrasty -- a good thing. If you computer is not the fastest, change the playback quality to draft in the program monitor settings within Premiere.

[William Boehm]

i am at a loss, and have a question. just bought cineform neoscene for windows...loaded it , and it does not recognize my camera, a canon xha1. it is listed under device manager under imaging devices, but not under sound, video and game control. i am attempting to copy hdv tapes to my external hard drive. i am a biologist, not a computer expert and this is frustrating. i could transfer dv tapes from the xha1 to windows movie maker av-dvi files, and now i installed cineform, it consitently states no video source. i have disconnected, powered up the computer with the fireport disconnected and not, and the camera on and connected..no luck. thanks in advance for help, and i really appreciate this forum. bill

[David Newman]

HDV cameras often have switch in menu as where there are seen as a DV or HDV camera. NeoScene will only see the camera in HDV mode. Some camera have an automatic mode which you should avoid.

[William Boehm]

thankyou..i will try to locate this in the menu...

[James Strange]

I too am having difficulty getting the workflow right.

I posted on the 7D page, but it might be better here:

My current workflow is:

Film in HDV using Z5 FX7

Capture tapes directly into Premier Pro CS3

Output to mpeg DVD using the HDV to SD workflow using HC encoder,
(or for bluray, output using Adobe Media Encoder)


Before i get a 7d (or possibly 550d/T2i) I'm looking for some clarification regarding the editing steps.

From what I've read, I'd need to transcode the 7d footage using cineform or mpeg streamclip?

I've never used either of them, but I've looked at the workflow chart for cinefrom neoscene.

Am I right in saying that with neoscene, I need to convert both my HDV footage and 7d footage to cineform avi's? then edit those cineform avi's in Premier?

Is it possible to transcode the 7d footage (without loss of quality) so that I can just drop it into a HDV (1080 50i) timeline? Does cineform or streamclip do this?
(or to put it another way, can I convert 7D footage to HDV?)

Or is the only way to have 7D and HDV footage on the same timeline (playing nice together) to convert both HDV and 7D footage to cineform?

As always, any suggestions are much appreciated.

Cheers

James

[David Newman]

Not quite in the this thread.

You can mix footage or you can transcode everything to CineForm, there are no issue regarding quality. Plus for Canon sources there are things we fix (camera dynamic range, and black level clipping,) making that source more useful in post.

[James Strange]

Thanks for getting back to me (and apologies if this is the wrong thread)

So If I transcode my HDV footgae & the 7D to cinefom (using neoscene), do I just open up a regualr HDV project in CS3?

If yes, then will both the transcoded HDV & 7D footage have the red line aboe it on the timeline?

Or do I setup a different type of project to match cineform settings?

Thanks

James

[David Newman]

In CS3 is will always show red line if you don't have a custom play module, and that come with Prospect products only. Adobe fixed this red line issue with CS4, and red became yellow, for clip that handle the correct resolution and frame rate, but in a different format. You can ignore the red line and the clip will play okay, just no where near as well as Prospect. NeoScene and CS3 is not as good a mix as NeoScene and CS4 (and soon CS5.) If you have the budget either upgrade Premiere or upgrade to Prospect.

[James Strange]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think I'll give it a go with just neoscene, and maybe upgrade to prospect (I take it its just prospect HD i need, not prospect4k)

I'm trying the trial (he he) of prospect HD.

Again, my apologies as these must seem like obvious questions with obvious answers.

What settings should I use for HD link when capturing my HDV footage / transcoding my 7d footage.

and then...

Which cineform preset should I choose when setting up a new CS3 project?

Thanks

James

[James Strange]

Another quick question (sorry :))

I've got the trial of prospect HD working,

Ive transcoded some HDV footage and some 7D footage

Opened up a new CS3 project, and choose a cineform preset (so many to choose from! I just choose 1440*1080 50i, was that correct? once the files are converted buy HD link, what are their properties?)

Dropped in both the HDV clip and the 7D clip, and hey presto, they imported no problem, and the play/crub on the timeline no bother, no red line at the top (yay!)

But i noticed something odd,

When srubbing throught the timeline (wityh the clips on it) they looked fine/normal.

When I hit space bar to play the timeline, the image becomes kinda 'less contrasty' if that makes sense?

Whan I place the timeline marker over the video, it looks normal, but when I play it, its less contrasty?

is this normal?

It seams that when I play the files in wmp that the original .mov is more contrasty than the cineform avi?

Again, honeslty, thanks for all the help, I just don';t want to drop £1000s on gear / software without having the kinks worked out first

Cheers

James

[David Newman]

The clip properties depend your camera and setup. Frame rate is likely 25 (Europe) or 23.976/29.97 (US). Interlaced vs progressive, you should know what mode your camera is in. The Canon is always progressive. Progressive can go on interlaced timelines, but not the other way around (without deinterlacing.) unless you are doing sport or reality TV, go 23.976/25p progressive if you can.

Contrast change in Prospect HD playback is a graphics card issue. Many gfx cards have their YUV levels miscalibrated (NVidia more than ATI.) We scrub in RGB (a Premiere preference) and playback in YUV (a DirectShow preference.) The RGB is the correct look, so you need to open you video levels setting for you graphics card and make the YUV levels match.

Contrast difference between source MOV and CineForm file. This is a good thing as the default MOV decode is typically wrong in most tools. CineForm is correcting the Canon's non-standard YUV range to preserve the fully dynamic range -- much better for color correction. More info here: CineForm Insider: Correction: Canon 5D is fine, tools are wrong.