Neo Scene AVCHD Conversion Question at DVinfo.net

Jamie Marsden · February 13th, 2010, 10:24 AM

I'm using Neo Scene to convert the .m2ts files from my Sony XR500E (European Version) camera into Cineform AVIs for editing in Premiere CS4. I'm shooting on the XR500 in FH recording mode (1920x1080/50i). My question is, what settings should i use for conerting the files? These are the settings that i've been using:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...i_settings.jpg

However, i've been having problems with the final video having a judder effect so i've been looking at my settings in Neo Scene to see if this is the source of the problem.

When i play the original cineform avi files that i converted with these settings above (i.e. 'maintain source frame format') in windows media player they look very 'flickery' as if it is flicking between frames or something. When i convert the original file again changing the 'Output frame format' option to 'Deinterlace' or 'Convert to 24p' the resulting files look much smoother in windows media.

Do you think this is the source of the 'judder' problem in my final video? What settings do other people working with interlaced AVCHD files use? Should i de-interlace the m2ts files in Neo Scene before i edit in Premiere?

Thanks in advance for any help.

David Newman · February 13th, 2010, 10:39 AM

Interlaced playback on a computer monitor (progressive) is not ideal. European footage on a progressive computer monitor is worse (50i playback on 60Hz refresh display -- computer LCD monitors are at typically 60 in Europe also.) If you maintain the interlacing, it will still be fine on you output. But what is your output? Web, LCD, plasma and all progressive. These display will be de-interlacing 50i to 50p for presentation with a loss of vertical resolution. Sport and reality TV benefit for the increased frame rate, most other sources don't. Deinterlacing in Neo from 50i to 25p will maintain your HD resolution, and provide a nice look for all your target outputs.

Jamie Marsden · February 13th, 2010, 11:10 AM

Thanks for the quick answer David!

Once i've edited the video in premiere i'm outputting it using encore to standard DVD and blu-ray then viewing them on a Sony LCD TV - thats when i get the 'judder' effect whenever there is motion. This is when i use the cineform avi files maintaining the source frame format (i.e. keeping the files interlaced).

I thought it was maybe some kind of issue with the upper/lower field setting somewhere in my workflow but i checked that and made sure i was keeping everything upper field first. So perhaps it is just the TV de-interlacing the footage that is causing the problem and i should de-interlace in neo scene to get round it?

Jamie Marsden · February 14th, 2010, 08:04 AM

David, i've been looking into this further and based on a check that i've done it appears to be something about the converted cineform files that is causing the problem with jerky motion when i view the final video on my LCD HD TV.

When i import the cineform avi files into a project in premiere CS4, i checked their properties by right clicking on them and selecting 'Properties' - i've attached the results for the cineform avi files (converted using the 'maintain source frame format' option) and the raw .m2ts. So it looks like the files are identical in terms of image size, frame rate and field order (i checked this one using the 'Interpret Footage' option in premiere).

Cineform AVI properties:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...properties.jpg

Raw .m2ts file properties:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...properties.jpg

I then created a new sequence with the settings shown in this image:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...e_settings.jpg

When i put the .m2ts file on the timeline i don't get a red bar above the file which i assume means that the sequence settings match the file properties. When i put the cineform avi on a yellow bar appears above it, which from what i understand is what you'd expect to see. I trimmed the files, added a few transitions then sent the timeline to a standard dvd encore project and burned it to a standard dvd (i'm waiting for some new blank blu rays to get delivered!) using the automatic settings.

When i watch the dvd through my Sony LCD HD TV, the .m2ts files look perfect - nice smooth motion, no problems at all. Then when the cineform avi files play i get the jerky motion. So it definitely seems to be something about the cineform files that is causing the problem.

Is this a problem that you've come across before? Is there anything different i should be doing in my workflow for the cineform files compared to the .m2ts files to prevent the problems i am getting with jerky motion in the final video?

David Newman · February 14th, 2010, 10:54 AM

That is very odd, as Premiere is rendering the DVD, I can't see how we are influencing that. Discuss with support as I can't see where you made any errors.

John Quandt · February 14th, 2010, 08:18 PM

I found that CS4 works best for me with a different workflow than I used in CS2. I now edit in Premiere Pro CS4 using the source video settings, which are NTSC HDV for me, so they're 1440x1080x60i with 1.333 aspect ratio. After editing, I open Encore CS4 and import the timelines from Premiere without rendering. I keep the project in HD mode and author a BluRay and a DVD from the same project, allowing Encore to do the transcoding for each.

Travis Rattley · March 14th, 2010, 09:09 PM

I am using a MAC PRO 10.5.8. I download the Trial Version of Neo Scene. When my video finish converting, I get the nice quality video with NO SOUND in Quicktime player! What am I doing wrong? With importing the video into Premiere CS3, I have no problems; however, there is still NO audio file attached to this file, too.

February 13th, 2010, 10:24 AM	#1
Jamie Marsden New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hitchin, England Posts: 14	Neo Scene AVCHD Conversion Question I'm using Neo Scene to convert the .m2ts files from my Sony XR500E (European Version) camera into Cineform AVIs for editing in Premiere CS4. I'm shooting on the XR500 in FH recording mode (1920x1080/50i). My question is, what settings should i use for conerting the files? These are the settings that i've been using: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...i_settings.jpg However, i've been having problems with the final video having a judder effect so i've been looking at my settings in Neo Scene to see if this is the source of the problem. When i play the original cineform avi files that i converted with these settings above (i.e. 'maintain source frame format') in windows media player they look very 'flickery' as if it is flicking between frames or something. When i convert the original file again changing the 'Output frame format' option to 'Deinterlace' or 'Convert to 24p' the resulting files look much smoother in windows media. Do you think this is the source of the 'judder' problem in my final video? What settings do other people working with interlaced AVCHD files use? Should i de-interlace the m2ts files in Neo Scene before i edit in Premiere? Thanks in advance for any help.

February 13th, 2010, 10:39 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Interlaced playback on a computer monitor (progressive) is not ideal. European footage on a progressive computer monitor is worse (50i playback on 60Hz refresh display -- computer LCD monitors are at typically 60 in Europe also.) If you maintain the interlacing, it will still be fine on you output. But what is your output? Web, LCD, plasma and all progressive. These display will be de-interlacing 50i to 50p for presentation with a loss of vertical resolution. Sport and reality TV benefit for the increased frame rate, most other sources don't. Deinterlacing in Neo from 50i to 25p will maintain your HD resolution, and provide a nice look for all your target outputs. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 14th, 2010, 10:54 AM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	That is very odd, as Premiere is rendering the DVD, I can't see how we are influencing that. Discuss with support as I can't see where you made any errors. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 14th, 2010, 08:18 PM	#6
John Quandt Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ogden UT Posts: 40	I found that CS4 works best for me with a different workflow than I used in CS2. I now edit in Premiere Pro CS4 using the source video settings, which are NTSC HDV for me, so they're 1440x1080x60i with 1.333 aspect ratio. After editing, I open Encore CS4 and import the timelines from Premiere without rendering. I keep the project in HD mode and author a BluRay and a DVD from the same project, allowing Encore to do the transcoding for each. Last edited by John Quandt; February 14th, 2010 at 10:26 PM.

March 14th, 2010, 09:09 PM	#7
Travis Rattley New Boot Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 11	Audio with Neo Scene? I am using a MAC PRO 10.5.8. I download the Trial Version of Neo Scene. When my video finish converting, I get the nice quality video with NO SOUND in Quicktime player! What am I doing wrong? With importing the video into Premiere CS3, I have no problems; however, there is still NO audio file attached to this file, too.

February 13th, 2010, 11:10 AM	#3
Jamie Marsden New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hitchin, England Posts: 14	Thanks for the quick answer David! Once i've edited the video in premiere i'm outputting it using encore to standard DVD and blu-ray then viewing them on a Sony LCD TV - thats when i get the 'judder' effect whenever there is motion. This is when i use the cineform avi files maintaining the source frame format (i.e. keeping the files interlaced). I thought it was maybe some kind of issue with the upper/lower field setting somewhere in my workflow but i checked that and made sure i was keeping everything upper field first. So perhaps it is just the TV de-interlacing the footage that is causing the problem and i should de-interlace in neo scene to get round it?

February 14th, 2010, 08:04 AM	#4
Jamie Marsden New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hitchin, England Posts: 14	David, i've been looking into this further and based on a check that i've done it appears to be something about the converted cineform files that is causing the problem with jerky motion when i view the final video on my LCD HD TV. When i import the cineform avi files into a project in premiere CS4, i checked their properties by right clicking on them and selecting 'Properties' - i've attached the results for the cineform avi files (converted using the 'maintain source frame format' option) and the raw .m2ts. So it looks like the files are identical in terms of image size, frame rate and field order (i checked this one using the 'Interpret Footage' option in premiere). Cineform AVI properties: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...properties.jpg Raw .m2ts file properties: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...properties.jpg I then created a new sequence with the settings shown in this image: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...e_settings.jpg When i put the .m2ts file on the timeline i don't get a red bar above the file which i assume means that the sequence settings match the file properties. When i put the cineform avi on a yellow bar appears above it, which from what i understand is what you'd expect to see. I trimmed the files, added a few transitions then sent the timeline to a standard dvd encore project and burned it to a standard dvd (i'm waiting for some new blank blu rays to get delivered!) using the automatic settings. When i watch the dvd through my Sony LCD HD TV, the .m2ts files look perfect - nice smooth motion, no problems at all. Then when the cineform avi files play i get the jerky motion. So it definitely seems to be something about the cineform files that is causing the problem. Is this a problem that you've come across before? Is there anything different i should be doing in my workflow for the cineform files compared to the .m2ts files to prevent the problems i am getting with jerky motion in the final video?