Update - CineForm Adobe CS4/CS5 Support

[Marty Baggen]

Once I moved to CS4, I contemplated the same question when it came to moving back to CS3. That option really didn't exist however, because after months of working in CS4, I was rapidly accumulating projects that were not backward compatible with older versions of Premiere.

I don't know if this next statement would pertain to CS3 as well, but what I can say is that once I had CS4 on a Win7 64-bit installation, stability was great... even with only 4gb of RAM.

I have read that CS4 does have some optimization for 64-bit, so whether CS3 would enjoy the same stability improvement, I would defer to someone with that setup.

Going back to CS3 invites its own set of hassles, and in my mind, only delays the inevitable death march towards "progress". In some instances, we can use 4 or 5 year old tools, but for the most part, our industry just isn't geared for that approach. New acquisition methods and codecs, new demands for distribution, and an inter-dependability of softwares having to cooperate pretty much dictates a routine turnover of programs.

Not to mention the obsession with speed that opens the door to another favorite area, hardware compatibility.... but let's save that little jewel for the first week of CS5's release.

[Stephen Armour]

It does. Running CS3 JUST WONDERFULLY on Win7 x64 with HD Prospect.

Ahhh. If only we hadn't updated one of our workstations to CS4...so sad.

Too bad the majority weren't as obsessed with quality as they are with speed! Producing CRAP faster doesn't do anyone any good.

[Marty Baggen]

Stephen.... what's your strategy with CS5, etc?

Have you determined what sort of impact it may have on your workflow.

Yeah, staying with CS3 would have been much better option..... but hey....if you're gonna produce crap, it might as well be FAST crap.

I've decided if I could have three wishes.... one of them would be to have the ability to read this forum 1 year in advance.

[Mike McCarthy]

Sign me up for that too, but I would only really need 6 months advanced warning. That should be sufficient.

We still use CS3 for most of our Matrox and Cineform systems, and only use CS4 for certain things that only it can do (OMF,AVID/FCP import, etc.) CS3 is a far better program. Not sure about all of the Mac stuff.

It iss worth noting that CS3 and CS4 can be concurrently installed, so there is little excuse to stop using Cineform's CS3 functionality just because you paid for the upgrade to CS4. They are still adding new features to Proscpect for CS3, which is a full functioning product. They recently added SDI support for the LHi and the ioExpress. The only thing you don't get is CS4's new features, but those are provided be Adobe, not Cineform.

[Marty Baggen]

Mike.... do you know of any clever ways of import/export that would allow CS3 to read a CS4 project?

Does a simple copy/paste of a sequence work?

Only six months? You must enjoy livin' on the edge!

[Stephen Armour]

Marty, it looks to me like CS5 could certainly be a major game changer...if Adobe isn't stupid. Don't bet all your cards on that happening, however...500 lb gorillas have a way of stomping where they shouldn't!

But, I can feel the winds of change moving here and when that happens, blood will flow if you are not very careful. Bleeding edger's (stupidly, I was one for many years) pay a heavy price for their new toys. If what I'm seeing comes through, the big iron and heavy duty software is being hammered out for new and (finally) professional tools by Adobe that could shake up the whole market and pave the way for high res 3D for the little guys (us), plus the big guys ($$).

Like it or not, two major things are coming. One is an already happening "raise-the-bar change" to much higher resolutions at all levels for us. That absolutely has to happen for true 3D (the second bar-raiser) to steam into our lives. Turn a deaf ear to all the neigh-sayers, because IT WILL HAPPEN! That is why Cineform will continue to be a major player in this arena, and why they currently own the only show in town for doing it without very big bucks.

I think what will happen (if Adobe is smart for a change): they will cover their well-endowed behindie and continue firmly with the open source effort (ATI's there, as well as nVidia), as well as keep behind nVidia's hot new Cuda/Fermi toys. That area will most certainly explode. The gain will be directly proportional to the layout however, so get ready to pay if you want to play! That's the way of "progress".

All this will clearly leave room for continuing to need tools like CF and maybe more so than ever. Some people have such limited vision, they throw things away because of their own lack of intelligence. They will live to regret that move and pay to make it happen again later.

Will CS5 be the really "big one" to make all this happen? Like I said, 500lb gorillas are not very agile or smart, but they can be VERY persuasive! Will it be a tool for all the above to happen? You can bet on it. Will it be the best one? If they are smart. Will it cost you an arm and a leg? Bet on it. Will you need very good hardware to run it? Bet on that too. Will you need it 2 yrs from now? Bet on that too. It's like a freight train.

One way Adobe could be stupid, is to not build in true professional workflow for group efforts by smaller studios. The only way they can be a game-changer with Premiere, is to do that on some level of offering. I say look for something like "Premiere Pro CS5 Workgroup Edition" if they actually do it, and then they'll charge us up the waazuti for it..and maybe even pay-by-the-seat! Who gives a rip if it does the job, right? What could cost more than having to buy multi-editions of PP CSx?

My four bits

[Mike Harrington]

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

Mike.... do you know of any clever ways of import/export that would allow CS3 to read a CS4 project?

Does a simple copy/paste of a sequence work?

Only six months? You must enjoy livin' on the edge!

multiple EDL's...
Good for small projects....major pain for big ones...

[Robert Young]

Originally Posted by Stephen Armour

Marty, it looks to me like CS5 could certainly be a major game changer...if Adobe isn't stupid.
My four bits

Very perceptive essay Stephen.
If CS5 + nVidea CUDA will really do what they are touting in the demos, it's gonna be a new world. Not just editing/acquisition codecs/previews, etc., but much faster rendering and export, and certainly, as you say, setting the stage for HD 3-D & who can guess what else.
The big question is if they will have done it right, bug free, & user friendly on the actual release version. Or, will it sit there like a smoldering heap, waiting for v 5.1, 5.2...
The big gorilla's definitely got the right ideas, we'll just have to wait and see about the details.

[Marty Baggen]

Originally Posted by Mike Harrington

multiple EDL's...
Good for small projects....major pain for big ones...

Makes sense... thanks Mike.

Now a follow up... how is Prospect to be installed with multiple instances of Premiere? Is that two activations? Or will CS3 find the required files if they are within a CS4 directory?

[Ray Parkes]

When I look at CS4 now CS5 and Cineform objectively I am no longer sure that it poses an advantage. The cost just doesn't appear worth it.

[Marty Baggen]

I think a lot of people are looking at it as well Ray.

For my workflow, First Light is really wonderful, and for the cost.... it actually stacks up fairly well, even if Prospect were only a color corrector.

I'm not sure how CS5 mitigates the whole HDV intraframe issue. Cineform is touted as an editable format, as opposed to something like HDV which is an acquisition format. This may end up a moot point with the sheer processing muscle of a CS5 host machine.

10 bit processing offers a lot more headroom, especially for multi-generational workflows.

My sense is that version 5 of Prospect is going to have additional features that will augment CS5. What they are, I have no idea. Let's just hope that CS5 and Cineform are able to shake hands and integrate.

Cineform has proven that they can fill the performance and feature gaps of existing NLEs. They don't sit still. And even though I was upset at not getting the RTE issue solved, given all the circumstances, my sense is that there was not much of a choice for them. And as I said earlier in this thread.... they had the guts to lay it all out to their customers. This board is literally like an open door to their marketing and engineering departments. Can any of us imagine offering the same insights into our business operations to anyone that felt like checking us out?

No thanks!

[Jake Segraves]

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

Makes sense... thanks Mike.

Now a follow up... how is Prospect to be installed with multiple instances of Premiere? Is that two activations? Or will CS3 find the required files if they are within a CS4 directory?

If CS3 and CS4 are installed on the same OS, with the same boot then you only need one activation and one Prospect installation. Prospect installs what CS3 needs into the CS3 folders and what CS4 needs into the appropriate CS4 folders. They can run simultaneously on the same system with a single activation.

[Marty Baggen]

Jake... thank you very much for the quick, after-hours response. It's always appreciated.... and good news on the flexibility for multiple variations of Premiere.

[Stephen Armour]

Originally Posted by Robert Young

Very perceptive essay Stephen.
If CS5 + nVidea CUDA will really do what they are touting in the demos, it's gonna be a new world. Not just editing/acquisition codecs/previews, etc., but much faster rendering and export, and certainly, as you say, setting the stage for HD 3-D & who can guess what else.
The big question is if they will have done it right, bug free, & user friendly on the actual release version. Or, will it sit there like a smoldering heap, waiting for v 5.1, 5.2...
The big gorilla's definitely got the right ideas, we'll just have to wait and see about the details.

Meanwhile, we'll just sit back and smile while the blood flows and the market goes, then we'll jump in when the water is just the right temp! It's going to be fun watching others get spattered first, this time!

I figure right about the time these current workstations we have are starting to get uncomfortably old, will be just about right for the next generational leap to 3D and ultra high res. By then, the market will have started to seriously move in that direction and the major long term players will be clear enough to invest for the longer run. Distribution channels will be finally catching up, as will the delivery channels.

If I can still see well enough by then to edit, I figure I'll be learning some new tricks for hiding all those nasty defects our ultra res 3D will show. Things like "automated actor replacement" and "all virtual camera moves" and "any background you want or can imagine".

And we'll all moan about how easy it used to be in the old days of CS3-4-5 ... but how "2D" it all was!

[Charles W. Hull]

Originally Posted by Jake Segraves

If CS3 and CS4 are installed on the same OS, with the same boot then you only need one activation and one Prospect installation. Prospect installs what CS3 needs into the CS3 folders and what CS4 needs into the appropriate CS4 folders. They can run simultaneously on the same system with a single activation.

Jake, do you have any feeling about CS5 yet; will you be able to have both CS4 and CS5 on the same machine? And will Prospect support both on the same machine?

I finally have a very stable system with CS4 and Prospect for the things I do, it's really very nice (RTE would be better). I surely would like to hang onto that, but also work into CS5 while Adobe goes through 5.1 and 5.2.....