CS3 + Prospect + Windows 7 at DVinfo.net

David Newman · November 14th, 2009, 02:58 PM

Getting a lot of support reports of incorrect color playback under CS3 / Windows 7 using Prospect. So this weekend I installed exactly that on my home clean install of Win 7 x64 system. It works with only one minor issue -- holes in the timeline play red not black (fixable I think -- but easy to work around as scrubs and renders exports correctly.)

I expect most of the reminding issues others are having are security related. I installed Prospect 4.1 using "Run as Administrator" that may address some of the issues reported. I run admin level user account (default) and with the paranoia level set to second from the bottom (UAC notifications.)

Could please report back your own experiences and setups with Prospect under Window 7. At first I feared CS3+Win7+PHD weren't going to mix, but clearly they do with the correct installation and settings.

Ian Lewis · November 14th, 2009, 03:57 PM

I first had this issue a couple of months ago on the RC of Win 7 64, and I found that playing with security fixed it. I either installed as admin or in vista compatibility mode or both and it worked.

More recently (as reported in the other thread about this) on a fresh install of the release version of Win 7 64, the problem turned up again and no combination of the above made any difference.

I then uninstalled Prospect 4, and installed Prospect 3, which worked fine. I then uninstalled Prospect 3 and installed prospect 4 again (without any security or compatibility tweaks at all) and I'm happy to say that it's working now.

Ian

David Newman · November 14th, 2009, 05:12 PM

It is the randomness of these reports that would be nice to get to the bottom of. Do you have the gap in the timeline playing red?

Ian Lewis · November 15th, 2009, 05:19 AM

I've just loaded an old project and created a gap on the timeline, and then started a new one and imported a few clips, laying them down with gaps. No red lines in either case. This is fun!

Jack Walker · November 15th, 2009, 04:20 PM

I have i7, Premiere CS3, ProspectHD and Windows 7. (program installations done as administrator)
(
I converted HDV 1080 60i to Cineform 1080 60i.

I used a Cineform preset 1080 60i.

The imported video thumbnails look okay, but when I click play, the video goes upside down and turns red. When I stop play, the still frame looks okay.

I have no idea what the problem is and what I should do to try to fix it.

I am just switching to premiere from a different editor. Should I go to a different editor and not waste my time? I am further frustrated by the lack of outpur from the MXO2 Mini or similar for a reasonable price.

I had intended to switch to Edius, but changed my mind. Is it perhaps a good idea to reconsider Edius and at least get something that works and has an output option. Will Cineform files and First Light work with Edius?

Windows 7 has been out in Beta for such a long time, that it seems strange that it as adding another layer of problems on top of what existed with Adobe already.

(Side Note: my netgear wireless doesn't have any drivers for Windows 7 either and I had to drag out old hardware and connect it.)

Is changing to MAC the only real solution for the future?

Jack Walker · November 15th, 2009, 05:53 PM

Update:

The problem only appears if I use a Cineform preset with a Cineform editing mode.

If I use a regular HDV preset, the Cineform video plays okay, and it does show the First Light changes.

Would it be better then to run NeoHD instead of ProspectHD with Windows 7 and Premiere CS3?

(I used Cineform presets, ProspectHD, Premiere CS3, and i7 okay with Windows Vista.)

David Newman · November 15th, 2009, 06:37 PM

Jack,

The upside down weird colors is why I started this post. We aren't seeing at the office, and Ian is no longer seeing it. We trying to determine what system setting causes it, as a brand new Win 7 install seems to be fine. Please try this:

1) Uninstall PHD
2) Get the latest version 4.1.2.22x
3) Set you User Account Controls to second from the bottom (or the very bottom if you prefer.)
3) Run the installer with "Run as Adminstrator".

See if that fixes the playback problem. Our guess it is system security related, as the weird playback is a sign that key components are not registered.

If that still fails, I have some more involved tests to help see what you PC is doing -- if you are up to it.

David

P.S. Edius is not a good fit for CineForm media.

Jack Walker · November 15th, 2009, 07:42 PM

Twice I did all the steps you list, restarting the computer between.

I still get projects created with Cineform presets to have video go upside and turn red when played.

I have tried different presets using video that matches the preset exactly or has different specs. Same upside down red result on playback. I have tried clips converted to Cineform before installing Windows 7 and after. Same result.

I installed Windows 7 clean.

I have an NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX260 graphics card.

Is there something else I can try to correct the problem?

Tim Bucklin · November 16th, 2009, 04:46 PM

All,
As we try to find out the real cause (and solution!) to this problem, we do have a temporary work-around that should not be more than a hiccup in your editing workflow.

Scroll Lock.

By enabling scroll lock (just pushing the key on your keyboard), it forces CS3 to use the Desktop playback engine instead of CineForm, even in a CF project. On faster machines (Core2Quad, i5, i7, etc.) you should still get real-time playback. You'll lose AJA output if enabled, but it should allow most of you to continue with your existing workflows and current software while we get to the bottom of this.

This way you can use your CF clips, CS3, First Light, CF projects, etc. just like you normally would, so that when it is fixed you won't be left having to switch projects around or anything else.

Jack Walker · November 16th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Thank you. The Scroll Lock lets me setup up current projects with the Cineform presets and get playback for now until the problem is discovered and fixed.

Windows 7 seems to be incompatible with many things that are not prepared to run on it... like my Netgear wirelessN.

Stephen Armour · December 19th, 2009, 04:43 PM

David, was this upside-down red playback issue ever resolved (or anything other than the Scroll Lock or Ctrl-spacebar workaround)?

I just did a clean Win7 x64 install to a new disk (bootdrive totally crashed) on the same system, but also with a new nVideo 8800 instead of the old Parhelia AVPe.

After updating and loading everything, I loaded CF and some projects, and I've now got the "playback red-upside downers".

Ran as Admin and changed every setting I could imagine (graphics card and system), but still persists.

David Newman · December 19th, 2009, 07:07 PM

It is still in the some systems do it and some don't. We will be pursuing the root cause after the CS4 engine is done, particularly as CS4 + Windows 7 is more common than CS3 + Win 7.

Steve Pesenti · December 22nd, 2009, 01:30 PM

I have CS3 running with Prospect HD on a Win 7 clean install and am getting the sames red frame / upsidedown playback issue.

I installed Prospect with UAC set to lowest setting - but that made no difference.

David Newman · December 22nd, 2009, 01:54 PM

Steve,

Could you do a quick test for us, as we don't have any Win7 systems with the CS3 playback failure, but we do have a theory.

http://miscdata.com/cineform/CFDecode2.zip

Please download the above. It is the latest DirectShow CineForm decoder. Unzip are replace the one in Program Files\Common Files\CineForm

Windows Key + R to bring up the Run command

For Win7 64-bit systems use
regsvr32 "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax"

For Win7 32-bit systems use
regsvr32 "C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax"

This will register the new decoder, and it should report that it succeeded.

Start up CS3 again and please report if the playback has improved on not.

David

Steve Pesenti · December 22nd, 2009, 03:22 PM

David - Thanks. I've just looked at this quickly in two of my projects.

It appears to fix the main issue of upsidedown red frame playback when there is something in the timeline.

But blank areas of the timeline still play as red rather than black. Of course putting black video in the timeline can be used as a simple workaround for this second issue.

November 14th, 2009, 02:58 PM	#1
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	CS3 + Prospect + Windows 7 Getting a lot of support reports of incorrect color playback under CS3 / Windows 7 using Prospect. So this weekend I installed exactly that on my home clean install of Win 7 x64 system. It works with only one minor issue -- holes in the timeline play red not black (fixable I think -- but easy to work around as scrubs and renders exports correctly.) I expect most of the reminding issues others are having are security related. I installed Prospect 4.1 using "Run as Administrator" that may address some of the issues reported. I run admin level user account (default) and with the paranoia level set to second from the bottom (UAC notifications.) Could please report back your own experiences and setups with Prospect under Window 7. At first I feared CS3+Win7+PHD weren't going to mix, but clearly they do with the correct installation and settings. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 14th, 2009, 05:12 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It is the randomness of these reports that would be nice to get to the bottom of. Do you have the gap in the timeline playing red? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 15th, 2009, 04:20 PM	#5
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	I have i7, Premiere CS3, ProspectHD and Windows 7. (program installations done as administrator) ( I converted HDV 1080 60i to Cineform 1080 60i. I used a Cineform preset 1080 60i. The imported video thumbnails look okay, but when I click play, the video goes upside down and turns red. When I stop play, the still frame looks okay. I have no idea what the problem is and what I should do to try to fix it. I am just switching to premiere from a different editor. Should I go to a different editor and not waste my time? I am further frustrated by the lack of outpur from the MXO2 Mini or similar for a reasonable price. I had intended to switch to Edius, but changed my mind. Is it perhaps a good idea to reconsider Edius and at least get something that works and has an output option. Will Cineform files and First Light work with Edius? Windows 7 has been out in Beta for such a long time, that it seems strange that it as adding another layer of problems on top of what existed with Adobe already. (Side Note: my netgear wireless doesn't have any drivers for Windows 7 either and I had to drag out old hardware and connect it.) Is changing to MAC the only real solution for the future? Last edited by Jack Walker; November 15th, 2009 at 05:34 PM.

November 15th, 2009, 06:37 PM	#7
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Jack, The upside down weird colors is why I started this post. We aren't seeing at the office, and Ian is no longer seeing it. We trying to determine what system setting causes it, as a brand new Win 7 install seems to be fine. Please try this: 1) Uninstall PHD 2) Get the latest version 4.1.2.22x 3) Set you User Account Controls to second from the bottom (or the very bottom if you prefer.) 3) Run the installer with "Run as Adminstrator". See if that fixes the playback problem. Our guess it is system security related, as the weird playback is a sign that key components are not registered. If that still fails, I have some more involved tests to help see what you PC is doing -- if you are up to it. David P.S. Edius is not a good fit for CineForm media. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 16th, 2009, 04:46 PM	#9
Tim Bucklin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 112	All, As we try to find out the real cause (and solution!) to this problem, we do have a temporary work-around that should not be more than a hiccup in your editing workflow. Scroll Lock. By enabling scroll lock (just pushing the key on your keyboard), it forces CS3 to use the Desktop playback engine instead of CineForm, even in a CF project. On faster machines (Core2Quad, i5, i7, etc.) you should still get real-time playback. You'll lose AJA output if enabled, but it should allow most of you to continue with your existing workflows and current software while we get to the bottom of this. This way you can use your CF clips, CS3, First Light, CF projects, etc. just like you normally would, so that when it is fixed you won't be left having to switch projects around or anything else. __________________ Tim Bucklin CineForm Software Engineer

November 14th, 2009, 03:57 PM	#2
Ian Lewis Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Farnham, UK Posts: 87	I first had this issue a couple of months ago on the RC of Win 7 64, and I found that playing with security fixed it. I either installed as admin or in vista compatibility mode or both and it worked. More recently (as reported in the other thread about this) on a fresh install of the release version of Win 7 64, the problem turned up again and no combination of the above made any difference. I then uninstalled Prospect 4, and installed Prospect 3, which worked fine. I then uninstalled Prospect 3 and installed prospect 4 again (without any security or compatibility tweaks at all) and I'm happy to say that it's working now. Ian

November 15th, 2009, 05:19 AM	#4
Ian Lewis Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Farnham, UK Posts: 87	I've just loaded an old project and created a gap on the timeline, and then started a new one and imported a few clips, laying them down with gaps. No red lines in either case. This is fun!

November 15th, 2009, 05:53 PM	#6
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Update: The problem only appears if I use a Cineform preset with a Cineform editing mode. If I use a regular HDV preset, the Cineform video plays okay, and it does show the First Light changes. Would it be better then to run NeoHD instead of ProspectHD with Windows 7 and Premiere CS3? (I used Cineform presets, ProspectHD, Premiere CS3, and i7 okay with Windows Vista.)

November 15th, 2009, 07:42 PM	#8
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Twice I did all the steps you list, restarting the computer between. I still get projects created with Cineform presets to have video go upside and turn red when played. I have tried different presets using video that matches the preset exactly or has different specs. Same upside down red result on playback. I have tried clips converted to Cineform before installing Windows 7 and after. Same result. I installed Windows 7 clean. I have an NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX260 graphics card. Is there something else I can try to correct the problem?

November 16th, 2009, 11:05 PM	#10
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Thank you. The Scroll Lock lets me setup up current projects with the Cineform presets and get playback for now until the problem is discovered and fixed. Windows 7 seems to be incompatible with many things that are not prepared to run on it... like my Netgear wirelessN.

December 19th, 2009, 04:43 PM	#11
Stephen Armour Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Natal, RN, Brasil Posts: 900	David, was this upside-down red playback issue ever resolved (or anything other than the Scroll Lock or Ctrl-spacebar workaround)? I just did a clean Win7 x64 install to a new disk (bootdrive totally crashed) on the same system, but also with a new nVideo 8800 instead of the old Parhelia AVPe. After updating and loading everything, I loaded CF and some projects, and I've now got the "playback red-upside downers". Ran as Admin and changed every setting I could imagine (graphics card and system), but still persists. __________________ http://lightinaction.org "All in the view of the LION" Last edited by Stephen Armour; December 19th, 2009 at 05:58 PM.

December 19th, 2009, 07:07 PM	#12
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It is still in the some systems do it and some don't. We will be pursuing the root cause after the CS4 engine is done, particularly as CS4 + Windows 7 is more common than CS3 + Win 7. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 22nd, 2009, 01:30 PM	#13
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	I have CS3 running with Prospect HD on a Win 7 clean install and am getting the sames red frame / upsidedown playback issue. I installed Prospect with UAC set to lowest setting - but that made no difference.

December 22nd, 2009, 01:54 PM	#14
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Steve, Could you do a quick test for us, as we don't have any Win7 systems with the CS3 playback failure, but we do have a theory. http://miscdata.com/cineform/CFDecode2.zip Please download the above. It is the latest DirectShow CineForm decoder. Unzip are replace the one in Program Files\Common Files\CineForm Windows Key + R to bring up the Run command For Win7 64-bit systems use regsvr32 "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax" For Win7 32-bit systems use regsvr32 "C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax" This will register the new decoder, and it should report that it succeeded. Start up CS3 again and please report if the playback has improved on not. David __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 22nd, 2009, 03:22 PM	#15
Steve Pesenti Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 60	David - Thanks. I've just looked at this quickly in two of my projects. It appears to fix the main issue of upsidedown red frame playback when there is something in the timeline. But blank areas of the timeline still play as red rather than black. Of course putting black video in the timeline can be used as a simple workaround for this second issue.