HDV to DVD

Kris Koster · November 27th, 2009, 06:33 AM

I have tried non-stop for the last 12 hours trying to get Cineform to work with my system and close to the end.

Trouble is, if I can't even play the outputted cineform-encoded avi to view on my system, there must indeed be a serious issue somewhere... Perhaps my graphics card (ATI Radeon HD 4870) is the issue? Google isn't my friend in this regard as it seems I'm alone in my issue with the codec!

Alas, I have to get this project out so I will look at other options for now. Thanks for the support here!

David Newman · November 27th, 2009, 11:25 AM

I have the same graphics card, so it is not the issue (we don't use the GPU anyway.) If the "CineForm AVI" export is not working (it uses DirectShow -- something might be missing there) you can also use the Microsoft AVI / VfW and select the CineForm codec there. It was complete different components for the same output.

Kris Koster · November 30th, 2009, 06:42 PM

Right, I thought it important to update this thread on my issue discussed here.

Jake from Cineform support got back to me today and suggested I first update my Premiere Pro CS4 to the latest update (at least 4.1), but 4.2 was available, so updated to that.

Although it wasn't suggested I do this, I also updated the Media Encoder to 4.2 as it was also available. But he did suggest I update Cineform NEO Scene to V140b125-091113 (latest one as of this post).

Having made all the above updates, all my previous problems was resolved and the encoding process now works perfectly. I suggest any future people reading this with similar problems to make updates as above.

Kris Koster · December 1st, 2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

[...] rather it is important to master at your HD resolution whatever that is (1280x720, 1440x1080 or 1920x1080), then resize that output file to you target resolution.

I have Procoder 3 and TMPGEnc and experimenting with both for my workflow.
My native clips are in PAL 1440x1080 25p which I also edited in CS4. I can now export creating my Cineform master at 1440x1080 as you suggested. After I bring my CFHD avi master back into the timeline, what's the best way to downscale from there for output on DVD (SD480 is NTSC, what's the PAL equiv?). Remembering the pixels are still 1:1.333 (HD Anamorphic)

I would like to avoid letterboxing and pillarboxing if possible. Thought I should downscale to 720 x 576, but that changes the aspect. 768 X 576 fits?

Someone should write a definitive guide on this!!

Gordon George · December 1st, 2009, 03:41 PM

I forget where I found this link, maybe it was on this site, but I followed these steps and I am quite happy with the results using the HC encoder. Everything you need is free and its not really as hard as it looks on first read. The only thing is that I found that I had to apply SmoothDinterlace filter. I am not sure if this is because I made some mistake or not, but in the end I am quite happy with the output I ended up with as compared with doing the HD to SD from adobe media encoder.

Precomposed Blog - HD to SD DVD - Best Methods

Bruce Gruber · December 12th, 2009, 06:49 AM

Hi Simon and everyone..

Gordon, that process is a lot of work and here is what I have found that works great. Customers were shocked when I showed them a demo and then told them it was SD!

Output from PP# to CF 1920x1080 or waht ever size you work with fiull High quality. That that master and run it thru TMPGEnc. the conversion is amazing. The your file is ready for Encore of that is waht you use to create your DVD's Simple and fast. I de-interlace thru TMPGEnc also.
Some people do not prefer to go progressive.

Dave Nuttall · December 16th, 2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

David... I haven't seen Dan's method, but here's what I do with very nice results, the caveat, it requires TMPGenc ($100 the last time I checked).

Output your edit to a CFHD file
Import into TMPGenc
Use the DVD preset
Set your data rates
Apply any filters.... some prefer to "always deinterlace". TMPGenc is one of the best at that task in my opinion
Set your output to seperate AC3 and MPG2 files.... and off you go.

Marty,
When you specify TMPGenc, I take it to mean TMPGenc-4.0 XPress?

I purchased the TMPGenc Studio and when I take a Cineform AVI out of CS4-PP there are "no apparent controls", filters or output options such as you and others seem to imply.

My HD looks reasonably good but my SD/DVDs from HD are always kinda soft/fuzzy.

I'm using HDLink to capture from Canon XH-A1s (1440X1080) where the original is 60i.

I've never been able to figure out whether the missing step of to use Encore or just concentrate on getting the crispiest HD timeline possible.

TIA to you or anyone who can clarify the TMPGenc element of HD->SD-DVD.

Edwin Baldwin · December 17th, 2009, 03:39 PM

Marty,
I would also like a clarification on the Tmpgenc setup for HD-> SD DVD.

Thanks.

Ed B

Bruce Gruber · December 17th, 2009, 06:59 PM

You would want TMPGenc Express. You take your CF master straight into TMPGenc express $99. There are all the settings and controlls you would need. Is that the clarification you were looking for?

Edwin Baldwin · December 18th, 2009, 07:07 AM

Bruce,

Using Tmpgenc Xpress I downsize a NTSC CF 1920 x 1080 to 720 x480 using Picture Resize (Lanczos - 3) and select DVD standard MPEG file 16 x 9 CBR (8000 kb/s). The results are soft and about the same as the Vegas Pro MC encoder. I have also skipped the resize and let the Tmpgenc encoder downsize the image with the same results. I assume I am not setting Tmpgenc correctly and I would appreciate a specific workflow and settings. Thank you.

Ed B

Thomas Moore · December 21st, 2009, 03:43 PM

Read this article for a nice walk through on using TMPGenc for creating DVD ready files:

AfterDawn.com: Guides: TMPGEnc 4 - MPEG-2 and MPEG-1 Video Settings

Bruce Gruber · December 21st, 2009, 03:58 PM

Hi Edwin,

I use 720x480
bitrate cbr 9300
display progressive
under filters use
deinterlace always by top field (hd) method interpolation adjusted
and i sharpen with a strenght of 18..

Try that and let me know what you think.. If someone else has better setting that would like to share I am all eyes!!
Thanks

Alex Artem · December 21st, 2009, 08:33 PM

Hi there,

2 very important VIDEO settings that work for me:
DC Component Precision 10bit
Motion Search Precision highest (w. error correction)
Other than these settings return soft result to me

Alex

Bruce Gruber · December 22nd, 2009, 03:50 AM

Hi Alex thanks I forgot those 2 settings.

John Rich · December 22nd, 2009, 07:44 AM

Alex,

Are you saying that you can achieve the best (ie sharpest) video with the settings you mentioned and do not require setting the sharpen strength to 18.

Also, Bruce, your cbr of 9300 seems like a lot at least what I've seen recommended for Adobe's Media Encoder (see this tutorial),

BDVS Tutorials

I really appreciate your input.
John Rich

November 27th, 2009, 11:25 AM	#32
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I have the same graphics card, so it is not the issue (we don't use the GPU anyway.) If the "CineForm AVI" export is not working (it uses DirectShow -- something might be missing there) you can also use the Microsoft AVI / VfW and select the CineForm codec there. It was complete different components for the same output. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 12th, 2009, 06:49 AM	#36
Bruce Gruber Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 221	HD to SD Hi Simon and everyone.. Gordon, that process is a lot of work and here is what I have found that works great. Customers were shocked when I showed them a demo and then told them it was SD! Output from PP# to CF 1920x1080 or waht ever size you work with fiull High quality. That that master and run it thru TMPGEnc. the conversion is amazing. The your file is ready for Encore of that is waht you use to create your DVD's Simple and fast. I de-interlace thru TMPGEnc also. Some people do not prefer to go progressive.

November 27th, 2009, 06:33 AM	#31
Kris Koster Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Gatwick, UK Posts: 185	I have tried non-stop for the last 12 hours trying to get Cineform to work with my system and close to the end. Trouble is, if I can't even play the outputted cineform-encoded avi to view on my system, there must indeed be a serious issue somewhere... Perhaps my graphics card (ATI Radeon HD 4870) is the issue? Google isn't my friend in this regard as it seems I'm alone in my issue with the codec! Alas, I have to get this project out so I will look at other options for now. Thanks for the support here!

November 30th, 2009, 06:42 PM	#33
Kris Koster Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Gatwick, UK Posts: 185	Right, I thought it important to update this thread on my issue discussed here. Jake from Cineform support got back to me today and suggested I first update my Premiere Pro CS4 to the latest update (at least 4.1), but 4.2 was available, so updated to that. Although it wasn't suggested I do this, I also updated the Media Encoder to 4.2 as it was also available. But he did suggest I update Cineform NEO Scene to V140b125-091113 (latest one as of this post). Having made all the above updates, all my previous problems was resolved and the encoding process now works perfectly. I suggest any future people reading this with similar problems to make updates as above.

December 1st, 2009, 03:41 PM	#35
Gordon George New Boot Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 6	I forget where I found this link, maybe it was on this site, but I followed these steps and I am quite happy with the results using the HC encoder. Everything you need is free and its not really as hard as it looks on first read. The only thing is that I found that I had to apply SmoothDinterlace filter. I am not sure if this is because I made some mistake or not, but in the end I am quite happy with the output I ended up with as compared with doing the HD to SD from adobe media encoder. Precomposed Blog - HD to SD DVD - Best Methods

December 17th, 2009, 03:39 PM	#38
Edwin Baldwin Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Endicott New York Posts: 54	Marty, I would also like a clarification on the Tmpgenc setup for HD-> SD DVD. Thanks. Ed B

December 17th, 2009, 06:59 PM	#39
Bruce Gruber Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 221	You would want TMPGenc Express. You take your CF master straight into TMPGenc express $99. There are all the settings and controlls you would need. Is that the clarification you were looking for?

December 18th, 2009, 07:07 AM	#40
Edwin Baldwin Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Endicott New York Posts: 54	Bruce, Using Tmpgenc Xpress I downsize a NTSC CF 1920 x 1080 to 720 x480 using Picture Resize (Lanczos - 3) and select DVD standard MPEG file 16 x 9 CBR (8000 kb/s). The results are soft and about the same as the Vegas Pro MC encoder. I have also skipped the resize and let the Tmpgenc encoder downsize the image with the same results. I assume I am not setting Tmpgenc correctly and I would appreciate a specific workflow and settings. Thank you. Ed B

December 21st, 2009, 03:43 PM	#41
Thomas Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ravenna, OH Posts: 198	Read this article for a nice walk through on using TMPGenc for creating DVD ready files: AfterDawn.com: Guides: TMPGEnc 4 - MPEG-2 and MPEG-1 Video Settings

December 21st, 2009, 03:58 PM	#42
Bruce Gruber Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 221	Hi Edwin, I use 720x480 bitrate cbr 9300 display progressive under filters use deinterlace always by top field (hd) method interpolation adjusted and i sharpen with a strenght of 18.. Try that and let me know what you think.. If someone else has better setting that would like to share I am all eyes!! Thanks

December 21st, 2009, 08:33 PM	#43
Alex Artem New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CONCORD, CA Posts: 18	Hi there, 2 very important VIDEO settings that work for me: DC Component Precision 10bit Motion Search Precision highest (w. error correction) Other than these settings return soft result to me Alex

December 22nd, 2009, 03:50 AM	#44
Bruce Gruber Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 221	Hi Alex thanks I forgot those 2 settings.

December 22nd, 2009, 07:44 AM	#45
John Rich Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 80	Alex, Are you saying that you can achieve the best (ie sharpest) video with the settings you mentioned and do not require setting the sharpen strength to 18. Also, Bruce, your cbr of 9300 seems like a lot at least what I've seen recommended for Adobe's Media Encoder (see this tutorial), BDVS Tutorials I really appreciate your input. John Rich