New PC beta releases for Neo/Prospect + 3D at DVinfo.net

David Newman · October 18th, 2009, 12:04 PM

Some big enhancements to First Light and Active Metadata color system is the primary reason to jump to these betas, although there are always minor subtle tweaks that didn't even make the readme file. First Light was pretty easy before, but it now is even easier to create the look you are after. Some internal new management of curves makes the lift/gamma/gain (shadow/midtone/highlight) much more intuitive, and also allowed for the addition of a contrast control. To get the best of the new color controls, set the new Workspace curve control for the "Primaries" from Linear (how it was) to "Output Curve." This is the first release of Neo 3D for windows, so get started on you 3D feature now. No major CS4 changes in this beta, more of that likely in the next.

The beta are here, bug reports are welcome.

Neo Player http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip
Neo HD http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip
Neo 4K http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip
Neo 3D http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip
Prospect HD http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Pr...224-091016.zip
Prospect 4K http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Pr...224-091016.zip

Jack Walker · October 18th, 2009, 02:34 PM

On the new First Light Prospect HD version, the global check boxes under the preview window don't seem to have an effect.

David Newman · October 18th, 2009, 07:42 PM

They effect only external decodes. I can't remember why we don't have them impact the FL view.

Andree Markefors · October 19th, 2009, 04:02 PM

Will these things (contrast) arrive on the Mac side soon as well?

In Neo HD?

Thanks

David Taylor · October 19th, 2009, 05:30 PM

Yes! We play leapfrog with Windows and Mac as to which one gets new features first. Hopefully we'll have a Mac update this week that includes the new FL features.

Mike Harrington · October 19th, 2009, 10:41 PM

just a few technical question's

on the primaries curve option what exactly is that doing....is it changing the color space(linear or output gamma) of the calculations....multiplying them by a gamma if that is what the output curve is
(edit....i guess I could always read the manual)

also coming from a Red centric workflow (annoying yes I know) what would be the equivalent for changing the ISO of a shot....a GAIN and LIFT combination??

Charles W. Hull · October 19th, 2009, 11:19 PM

I have a FirstLight bug with ProspectHD, FLPlayer crashes whenever the video plays. I reinstalled 4.1.1 and it plays okay.

David Newman · October 19th, 2009, 11:50 PM

primaries curve -- is the curve you are doing you correction in. Opteration like saturation and matricing should occur in linear space, yet left/gamma/gain is more a creative operation that should occur in curve you are seeing.

ISO is all gain -- in linear space. Makes me think we should have a exposure slider that works in linear, while gain operates in curved space, the color engine supports that -- oh well, yet will have to be in another version.

David Newman · October 19th, 2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles W. Hull

I have a FirstLight bug with ProspectHD, FLPlayer crashes whenever the video plays. I reinstalled 4.1.1 and it plays okay.

That is why it is beta. :) We have found and fixed that crash.

Mike Harrington · October 20th, 2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

ISO is all gain -- in linear space. Makes me think we should have a exposure slider that works in linear, while gain operates in curved space, the color engine supports that -- oh well, yet will have to be in another version.

that would be great....
some apps we still need to use native r3d...and it would be nice to match changes easily between the 2

i can see your on it, and great work on the new version of first light...

Bill Engeler · October 21st, 2009, 10:54 AM

Using the beta, the audio drifts in files converted from 7D MOV files. They lose about 1.5 frames per minute. The picture appears OK. I don't have the problem with HDV files converted to cineform AVI.

I'm using HDLink to convert 25P 1920 x 1080 files from the 7D, medium quality. I've not chosen to change frame rate from 25fps. The HDV files are 25F from an XHA1, and these seem to have no problems.

I did notice thatHDLink reports something about a 5D and 29.97 in the log. ??? I haven't chosen any settings that reference 29.97.

PPro CS3.2, Windows XP, intel 9350,

David Newman · October 21st, 2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harrington

that would be great....
some apps we still need to use native r3d...and it would be nice to match changes easily between the 2

i can see your on it, and great work on the new version of first light...

The official verison will include an exposure control.

Tim Bucklin · October 21st, 2009, 01:18 PM

Bill, can you please send a sample 25p file via yousendit to support@cineform.com?

If HDLink is mistaking the file for a 30.00p file, it will try to convert the audio and video to 29.97. If it's 25p, that makes it 24.975, which obviously is invalid.

With your sample file, we can figure out what's going wrong and fix it.

Thanks.

October 18th, 2009, 12:04 PM	#1
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	New PC beta releases for Neo/Prospect + 3D Some big enhancements to First Light and Active Metadata color system is the primary reason to jump to these betas, although there are always minor subtle tweaks that didn't even make the readme file. First Light was pretty easy before, but it now is even easier to create the look you are after. Some internal new management of curves makes the lift/gamma/gain (shadow/midtone/highlight) much more intuitive, and also allowed for the addition of a contrast control. To get the best of the new color controls, set the new Workspace curve control for the "Primaries" from Linear (how it was) to "Output Curve." This is the first release of Neo 3D for windows, so get started on you 3D feature now. No major CS4 changes in this beta, more of that likely in the next. The beta are here, bug reports are welcome. Neo Player http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip Neo HD http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip Neo 4K http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip Neo 3D http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...224-091016.zip Prospect HD http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Pr...224-091016.zip Prospect 4K http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Pr...224-091016.zip Attached Thumbnails __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 18th, 2009, 07:42 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	They effect only external decodes. I can't remember why we don't have them impact the FL view. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 19th, 2009, 11:50 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	primaries curve -- is the curve you are doing you correction in. Opteration like saturation and matricing should occur in linear space, yet left/gamma/gain is more a creative operation that should occur in curve you are seeing. ISO is all gain -- in linear space. Makes me think we should have a exposure slider that works in linear, while gain operates in curved space, the color engine supports that -- oh well, yet will have to be in another version. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 21st, 2009, 10:54 AM	#11
Bill Engeler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brussels, Belgium Posts: 162	audio loses sync Using the beta, the audio drifts in files converted from 7D MOV files. They lose about 1.5 frames per minute. The picture appears OK. I don't have the problem with HDV files converted to cineform AVI. I'm using HDLink to convert 25P 1920 x 1080 files from the 7D, medium quality. I've not chosen to change frame rate from 25fps. The HDV files are 25F from an XHA1, and these seem to have no problems. I did notice thatHDLink reports something about a 5D and 29.97 in the log. ??? I haven't chosen any settings that reference 29.97. PPro CS3.2, Windows XP, intel 9350,

October 21st, 2009, 01:18 PM	#13
Tim Bucklin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 112	Bill, can you please send a sample 25p file via yousendit to support@cineform.com? If HDLink is mistaking the file for a 30.00p file, it will try to convert the audio and video to 29.97. If it's 25p, that makes it 24.975, which obviously is invalid. With your sample file, we can figure out what's going wrong and fix it. Thanks. __________________ Tim Bucklin CineForm Software Engineer

October 18th, 2009, 02:34 PM	#2
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	On the new First Light Prospect HD version, the global check boxes under the preview window don't seem to have an effect.

October 19th, 2009, 04:02 PM	#4
Andree Markefors Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Zürich Switzerland Posts: 81	Will these things (contrast) arrive on the Mac side soon as well? In Neo HD? Thanks

October 19th, 2009, 05:30 PM	#5
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Yes! We play leapfrog with Windows and Mac as to which one gets new features first. Hopefully we'll have a Mac update this week that includes the new FL features.

October 19th, 2009, 10:41 PM	#6
Mike Harrington Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 91	just a few technical question's on the primaries curve option what exactly is that doing....is it changing the color space(linear or output gamma) of the calculations....multiplying them by a gamma if that is what the output curve is (edit....i guess I could always read the manual) also coming from a Red centric workflow (annoying yes I know) what would be the equivalent for changing the ISO of a shot....a GAIN and LIFT combination??

October 19th, 2009, 11:19 PM	#7
Charles W. Hull Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 445	I have a FirstLight bug with ProspectHD, FLPlayer crashes whenever the video plays. I reinstalled 4.1.1 and it plays okay.