First Light White Balance issues at DVinfo.net

Matt Vanecek · October 10th, 2009, 12:27 PM

hey,
The White Balance sliders in First Light are providing me no end of headaches! When I adjust the kelvin, the tint changes. If I adjust the tint, then click (but DON'T move!) the Kelvin, then the tint changes. If I toggle the Enable checkbox, then the entire White Balance settings change!!! I don't mind the Red/Green/Blue sliders changing, but when I set the temperature, I expect the temperature to NEVER change, and when I set the Tint, I expect the Tint to NEVER change, unless maybe I slide the RGB sliders. What gives, guys! ESPECIALLY the Enable checkbox changing the WB???

Very frustrating such good idea has such implementation problems...

Matt

David Moody · October 10th, 2009, 02:07 PM

If your are in Vista, run program as Administrator.

David Newman · October 10th, 2009, 02:21 PM

I've never noticed, and you are the first to mention it, likely as it is purely cosmetic. White balance is performed as R,G,B gains, and kelvin and tint number are just rough indicators to to that alternative color system.

Matt Vanecek · October 10th, 2009, 03:38 PM

I may have misunderstood how to use the adjustments, then. In, e.g., Photoshop & Camera Raw, you use the temperature and tint adjustments. I assumed that First Light would be the same. Is this not the case?

Thanks,
Matt

Jack Walker · October 10th, 2009, 04:01 PM

The controls seem to be the same as in Adobe Camera Raw, except that in First Light you have the R, G and B sliders in addition

In First Light you can change the temp slider and the tint (magenta/green) slider. The RGB sliders change automatically to show how these colors were changed.

Also, the Tint slider seems to operate in reverse in First Light to the way it operates in Adobe.

Also, the First Light temp and tint sliders will go to extremes not available in Adobe.

Bottom line, you have two ways in First Light to control color temperature:
1. The Temperature slider and the Tint slider
OR
2. The RGB sliders.

You use one method or the other. Move the Temp and Tint sliders, and the RGB sliders move on their own to the correct values. Move the RGB sliders and the Temp/Tint sliders move on their own to the corresponding values.

Matt Vanecek · October 10th, 2009, 11:07 PM

Jack,
Problem is, the Kelvin and Tint sliders keep jumping around, when I move from Kelvin to Tint, the Kelvin slider will pop back up to where it was before I slid it. And toggling the Enable button also causes both Kelvin and Tint sliders to jump around. I interpret David's post as meaning we should be using the RGB sliders, and when I use those instead of Kelvin/Tint, everything appears to work normally. I think there's something screwy in the user interface. Guess that's what you get with .NET...

Thanks,
Matt

David Newman · October 10th, 2009, 11:11 PM

All meant is the number on the kelvin/tint are cosmetic, the kelvin and tinit slide work fine -- that is what I use. Not really an issue.

Matt Vanecek · October 10th, 2009, 11:27 PM

David,
It's totally an issue! The sliders keep jumping around! I'll see if it'll let me get a screen capture of the jumping in action tomorrow.

Thanks,
Matt

David Newman · October 11th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Yet the just doesn't negativity impact the white balance, that is why I consider it cosmetic and ore import features and functions to address.

Kaspar Kallas · October 11th, 2009, 10:40 AM

Hi

David, why it is not an cosmetic error is when you do wb with wb/tint controls then the sliders move, now when you grab the slider to move it a bit you get very unexpected color. I have hit my head against this at least few times - it is just "a bit weird look" when the DOP sits next to you....

Matt, CF seems to small company chewing a big piece of software, sometimes it is easier to learn a new thing rather than to wait something to get fixed, just use the RGB sliders, took a few hours but got a hang of it ;)

my .02 euros
-Kaspar

David Newman · October 11th, 2009, 12:28 PM

I see the problem now, there is a GUI refresh issue (what it is displaying is not what it is internally.) I'll put it on the list.

Matt Vanecek · October 11th, 2009, 04:53 PM

Thanks, David! I'll just use the RGB sliders like Kaspar suggests, and be very cautious, for now. I'm just happy to hear I'm not totally crazy! :)

Thanks,
Matt

David Newman · October 13th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Fixed. The where different table converting temp to RGB, than RGB to than, the mismathc causes the problem. You are going like the next release of First Light.

Gary Brun · October 14th, 2009, 01:49 AM

I look forward to it.

October 10th, 2009, 12:27 PM	#1
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	First Light White Balance issues hey, The White Balance sliders in First Light are providing me no end of headaches! When I adjust the kelvin, the tint changes. If I adjust the tint, then click (but DON'T move!) the Kelvin, then the tint changes. If I toggle the Enable checkbox, then the entire White Balance settings change!!! I don't mind the Red/Green/Blue sliders changing, but when I set the temperature, I expect the temperature to NEVER change, and when I set the Tint, I expect the Tint to NEVER change, unless maybe I slide the RGB sliders. What gives, guys! ESPECIALLY the Enable checkbox changing the WB??? Very frustrating such good idea has such implementation problems... Matt

October 10th, 2009, 02:21 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I've never noticed, and you are the first to mention it, likely as it is purely cosmetic. White balance is performed as R,G,B gains, and kelvin and tint number are just rough indicators to to that alternative color system. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 10th, 2009, 11:11 PM	#7
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	All meant is the number on the kelvin/tint are cosmetic, the kelvin and tinit slide work fine -- that is what I use. Not really an issue. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 11th, 2009, 09:42 AM	#9
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yet the just doesn't negativity impact the white balance, that is why I consider it cosmetic and ore import features and functions to address. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 11th, 2009, 12:28 PM	#11
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I see the problem now, there is a GUI refresh issue (what it is displaying is not what it is internally.) I'll put it on the list. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 10th, 2009, 02:07 PM	#2
David Moody Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 86	If your are in Vista, run program as Administrator.

October 10th, 2009, 03:38 PM	#4
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	I may have misunderstood how to use the adjustments, then. In, e.g., Photoshop & Camera Raw, you use the temperature and tint adjustments. I assumed that First Light would be the same. Is this not the case? Thanks, Matt

October 10th, 2009, 04:01 PM	#5
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	The controls seem to be the same as in Adobe Camera Raw, except that in First Light you have the R, G and B sliders in addition In First Light you can change the temp slider and the tint (magenta/green) slider. The RGB sliders change automatically to show how these colors were changed. Also, the Tint slider seems to operate in reverse in First Light to the way it operates in Adobe. Also, the First Light temp and tint sliders will go to extremes not available in Adobe. Bottom line, you have two ways in First Light to control color temperature: 1. The Temperature slider and the Tint slider OR 2. The RGB sliders. You use one method or the other. Move the Temp and Tint sliders, and the RGB sliders move on their own to the correct values. Move the RGB sliders and the Temp/Tint sliders move on their own to the corresponding values.

October 10th, 2009, 11:07 PM	#6
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	Jack, Problem is, the Kelvin and Tint sliders keep jumping around, when I move from Kelvin to Tint, the Kelvin slider will pop back up to where it was before I slid it. And toggling the Enable button also causes both Kelvin and Tint sliders to jump around. I interpret David's post as meaning we should be using the RGB sliders, and when I use those instead of Kelvin/Tint, everything appears to work normally. I think there's something screwy in the user interface. Guess that's what you get with .NET... Thanks, Matt

October 10th, 2009, 11:27 PM	#8
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	David, It's totally an issue! The sliders keep jumping around! I'll see if it'll let me get a screen capture of the jumping in action tomorrow. Thanks, Matt

October 11th, 2009, 10:40 AM	#10
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Hi David, why it is not an cosmetic error is when you do wb with wb/tint controls then the sliders move, now when you grab the slider to move it a bit you get very unexpected color. I have hit my head against this at least few times - it is just "a bit weird look" when the DOP sits next to you.... Matt, CF seems to small company chewing a big piece of software, sometimes it is easier to learn a new thing rather than to wait something to get fixed, just use the RGB sliders, took a few hours but got a hang of it ;) my .02 euros -Kaspar

October 11th, 2009, 04:53 PM	#12
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	Thanks, David! I'll just use the RGB sliders like Kaspar suggests, and be very cautious, for now. I'm just happy to hear I'm not totally crazy! :) Thanks, Matt

October 13th, 2009, 03:13 PM	#13
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Fixed. The where different table converting temp to RGB, than RGB to than, the mismathc causes the problem. You are going like the next release of First Light. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 14th, 2009, 01:49 AM	#14
Gary Brun Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kråkstad Norway. Posts: 229	I look forward to it. __________________ http://www.mlotv.com