Aspect HD Question at DVinfo.net

Chad Solo · April 25th, 2005, 03:31 PM

I have read ton's of post's but can't figure out whats causing this and I now it's probley something simple. I'm using the aspect HD demo and capturing a m2t file from my FX1 and then I convert it to the avi and when I watch it on a computer everything seems ok until the camera pans a bit and something is moving in the scene all you see is lines around the edges. If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.

Thank's
Chet

David Newman · April 25th, 2005, 06:30 PM

I moved you question to the CineForm fourm.

I need to learn more about the problem. What player are you using? Does it look wrong only with desktop playback or with Premiere as well? It this a interlacing issue -- remember interlace video can look weird on a computer monitor but this is not a bug.

David

Chad Solo · April 26th, 2005, 06:44 AM

Thank's for the reply. I'm a newbie with this I have worked with DV for awhile but working with m2t files and converting is very new to me. Most of the time I'm using Windows Media player 10 and if the camera is still and no movement in the scene it looks great but once something moves you see the lines. I'm not sure if this is a interlacing issue since I'm new to this but I'm guessing it is. Thank's again for the reply'

Ken Hodson · April 29th, 2005, 09:56 PM

Maybe the fields are reversed?

Steve Crisdale · April 30th, 2005, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

Maybe the fields are reversed?

Unlikely. The usual thing is for a newbie who doesn't have the experience, knowledge or understanding of the technologies used to display images to freak out the first time they see interleaving on their progressive display computer monitors.

These posts will continue to be made by newcomers, and despite the hope they might do a search before posting... they'll always think that their problem hasn't arisen before.

Do NOT use Windows Media Player to view 1080i clips. Some times it'll work...most times it won't.

Get VLC to play your interlaced (or for that matter any HD) video. You will need to select the de-interlace method after starting the player - which is a bit of a bummer - to blend or bob or weave... then sit back and enjoy.

Gotta stop people thinking Windows Media Player is the player they should be using... Hell, it doesn't even work with it's own WMV9 HD files sometimes!! How crap is that?!!!

Dave Campbell · July 7th, 2005, 10:15 AM

Steve, I had no idea that windows media player will not play HD.
Now, are you saying it will not play wmv9 1080i HD files correctly?
Or, mt2 files?

Yet, still am a newbie.

Dave

Peter Ferling · July 7th, 2005, 11:01 AM

Steve, you were a newbie yourself once, correct?

Windows media player will handle 720p just fine, (never tried the 1080i, as my current pc's barely fit the spec for 1080i playback).

Your problem is interlacing. If your using the stand alone media encoder, check the deinterlace box in the processing tab prior to encoding.

Dave Campbell · July 7th, 2005, 11:42 AM

My 720p output in MP worked fine on my computer monitor. My 1080I
issue may be that I am use a progressive display.

So much to learn.

Dave

Steve Crisdale · July 8th, 2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

Steve, you were a newbie yourself once, correct?

Windows media player will handle 720p just fine, (never tried the 1080i, as my current pc's barely fit the spec for 1080i playback).

Your problem is interlacing. If your using the stand alone media encoder, check the deinterlace box in the processing tab prior to encoding.

You're darn tootin' I was a newbie... once upon a time!! And, I ain't afraid to admit that even with nearly 16 years of computer experience... I still can make elementary cock-ups. :)

One most elementary of cock-ups when reporting these sort of results can be assuming that we are talking about the same version of Windows Media Player. I'm refering to WMP10, which is supposedly enhanced for HD performance.

My comments regarding Windows Media Player aren't based around limited attempts to get it to work consistently however. I've encoded a variety of HD source material (from 1080i FTA broadcast to 720p NTSC from my HD10u and 1080i 50 PAL FX-1e) to an even wider variety of WMV9 flavours and bit-rates in an attempt to find it's 'sweet-spot'. I've also got 3 PCs with enough 'grunt' to handle HD playback without problem, yet I've not had consistent enough success with 1080 WMV9 to justify putting my faith in it as 'the' means to distribute completed HD projects. The problem becomes less noticeable on 720p material at much lower bit-rates, but HD image quality quickly deteriorates at bit-rates below 13Mbit. Try using bit-rates of 19Mbit (supposed broadcast bit-rate) - which is what I'd prefer to retain - and see whether WMP10 is consistent in it's play-back...

Interestingly enough, the Windows Media Player Classic (a free WMP 'replacement') is more consistent in the playback of WMV files on those same machines. I've installed the exact same codecs on all three machines - no more, no less - in an attempt to track down what the inconsistency could be, to no real avail.

The player that I use for consistent 720p, 1080i and 1080p playback is Intervideo's WinDVD 6 which has HD level mux/demux *.ax's (DirectShow filters) that just seem to work...

You may well find that certain DVB player applications are also superior for HD playback, as they're designed for handling HD streams.

Peter Ferling · July 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM

Yup. I'm referring to WMP v9. I tried v10 when it first came out, and quickly dumped it in favor or more stable v9. I then informed our IT dept not to load v10, and stay with v9 on our corp machines. It's the only way I can ensure stable 720p playback (although at 10mbit). Which is great for PPT and video as fine text on the slides renders as readable. (I could use a flash implementation, but the quality vs. hi-def, especially when projected on the wall is worth it).

I'm using SD material as PIP alongside the PPT, and folks like it. Anything more than 720p 10mbit only earns me a larger file size.

When I ugrade to Hi-def camera's I'll be in the same boat as you as I'd want to capitalize on the best image quality. So I will look into the winDVD v6, (I believe we have that as a base install on the deployed machines as well).

Steve Crisdale · July 8th, 2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

When I ugrade to Hi-def camera's I'll be in the same boat as you as I'd want to capitalize on the best image quality. So I will look into the winDVD v6, (I believe we have that as a base install on the deployed machines as well).

I'd actually recommend Media Player Classic over WinDVD, PowerDVD or WMP for HD playback.

The reason I'd recommend VLC over them all, is it's ability to work with the camera as a preview app, as well as it's playback capabilities. I'm not sure about it's capture quality... but I'll be testing VLC's supposed direct to disk capture ability with my laptop soon.

A lot of HD capable software that will be applicable to HDV m2t is derived from DVD/DVB and video streaming applications. It's going to be worth keeping an eye on developments outside of the HDV arena to be able to extract the best possible outcome for our investment.

April 25th, 2005, 03:31 PM	#1
Chad Solo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: St.Petersburg,Fla Posts: 162	Aspect HD Question I have read ton's of post's but can't figure out whats causing this and I now it's probley something simple. I'm using the aspect HD demo and capturing a m2t file from my FX1 and then I convert it to the avi and when I watch it on a computer everything seems ok until the camera pans a bit and something is moving in the scene all you see is lines around the edges. If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it. Thank's Chet

April 25th, 2005, 06:30 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I moved you question to the CineForm fourm. I need to learn more about the problem. What player are you using? Does it look wrong only with desktop playback or with Premiere as well? It this a interlacing issue -- remember interlace video can look weird on a computer monitor but this is not a bug. David __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 29th, 2005, 09:56 PM	#4
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Maybe the fields are reversed? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

April 26th, 2005, 06:44 AM	#3
Chad Solo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: St.Petersburg,Fla Posts: 162	Thank's for the reply. I'm a newbie with this I have worked with DV for awhile but working with m2t files and converting is very new to me. Most of the time I'm using Windows Media player 10 and if the camera is still and no movement in the scene it looks great but once something moves you see the lines. I'm not sure if this is a interlacing issue since I'm new to this but I'm guessing it is. Thank's again for the reply'

July 7th, 2005, 10:15 AM	#6
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Steve, I had no idea that windows media player will not play HD. Now, are you saying it will not play wmv9 1080i HD files correctly? Or, mt2 files? Yet, still am a newbie. Dave

July 7th, 2005, 11:01 AM	#7
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Steve, you were a newbie yourself once, correct? Windows media player will handle 720p just fine, (never tried the 1080i, as my current pc's barely fit the spec for 1080i playback). Your problem is interlacing. If your using the stand alone media encoder, check the deinterlace box in the processing tab prior to encoding.

July 7th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#8
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	My 720p output in MP worked fine on my computer monitor. My 1080I issue may be that I am use a progressive display. So much to learn. Dave

July 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM	#10
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Yup. I'm referring to WMP v9. I tried v10 when it first came out, and quickly dumped it in favor or more stable v9. I then informed our IT dept not to load v10, and stay with v9 on our corp machines. It's the only way I can ensure stable 720p playback (although at 10mbit). Which is great for PPT and video as fine text on the slides renders as readable. (I could use a flash implementation, but the quality vs. hi-def, especially when projected on the wall is worth it). I'm using SD material as PIP alongside the PPT, and folks like it. Anything more than 720p 10mbit only earns me a larger file size. When I ugrade to Hi-def camera's I'll be in the same boat as you as I'd want to capitalize on the best image quality. So I will look into the winDVD v6, (I believe we have that as a base install on the deployed machines as well).