HDLink -- various questions

Dave Campbell · June 2nd, 2007, 08:13 AM

Okay, not sure what is going on. If I hook my hc1 to my system,
and run hdlink, sees the unit fine and I can control it. But, when I hook my 25u deck, all I get is no capure devices available. I am using Vista, and when I turn on the 25u, the system sees it just fine.

Any ideas?

Dave

Dave Campbell · June 2nd, 2007, 08:51 AM

Same thing happens in PPro2 also. HC1 works, m25u no seen.

Dave

Dave Campbell · June 2nd, 2007, 09:00 AM

Okay, found the issue. I have the unit set to convert hdv-dv.
Once I turned this off, works fine.

Dave

Salah Baker · June 11th, 2007, 06:55 PM

http://www.cineform.com/products/Tec...apSettings.htm

I assume this was for HDV and not for HD-SDI or Hdmi to Hdsdi for a couple of the cams?

David Newman · June 11th, 2007, 07:07 PM

Yes, for HDV tape capture. The only difference is Canon 24F over HDSDI does require pulldown removal checked.

Salah Baker · June 11th, 2007, 07:24 PM

Figured so, but it may be a good idea to break it down from just HDV to other capture options..

You Know at first, I spent some time with the Box Varicam to figure out the HD-SDI from it,,,

Terry McGregor · June 21st, 2007, 02:58 PM

Does anyone know why NEO HDV HDLink downgrades the Video Sample Size from 32 bit to 16 bit, when converting HDV to AVI? It also changes something else (from 25 to 19 - see results below), but I'm not sure what it is. Is there any way I can fix these problems?

I also used Sony Vegas Render As to do the same thing and I compared the results. The above mentioned problems to not occur in Vegas.

Here's what I did
Step 1: Downloaded source file (millard.m2t) from http://www.vasst2.com/HDV/FX-1_images.htm
Step 2: Used HDLink to convert millard.m2t file to .avi (Quality = High)
Step 3: Used Sony Vegas to render millard.mt2 file to .avi (Quality = Best)
Step 4: Compared these files in the Sony Vegas Project Media window.

Here are the results

Source file (millart.m2t)
Video: 1440x1080x32, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;25, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, MPEG-2
Audio: 48,000 Hz, Stereo, 00:00:14;25, MPEG Layer 2
Size: 47MB

Cineform HDLink - Converted file (millart-001.avi)
Video: 1440x1080x16, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;19, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, Cineform HD Codec 3.11
Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 00:00:14;19, Uncompressed
Size: 130MB

Sony Vegas - Rendered file (millart-002.avi)
Video: 1440x1080x32, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;25, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, Cineform HD Codec 3.11
Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 00:00:14;25, Uncompressed
Size: 126MB

David Newman · June 21st, 2007, 06:12 PM

16 or 32-bit of almost meaningless information.

It is doesn't make any difference to the file. You even use a hex editor to could 16 to 32, same file will play. 16 is really the correct value for 4:2:2 YUV data, the MPEG could even be considered to have only 12-bits per pixel.

Dan Robinson · June 22nd, 2007, 06:24 PM

I've been having an issue with HDLink quietly and randomly stopping captures and playback from my FX1. I'm capturing the m2t file only (no AVI conversion) from my FX1. There is no error message, the program just stops the capture anywhere from 20 seconds to 4 minutes or more in.

At this point I can't do any long captures (over 4 minutes or so) because the software is always stopping it at some point. On shorter captures, I have to watch the program like a hawk, because it often stops the capture prematurely without me knowing it.

HDLink will also send random 'stop' signals to the camera while I'm seeking or playing back video on the camera while it is connected via firewire. I'll be watching footage on the LCD and all of a sudden the camera will stop playing. I have to keep re-starting playback.

I have plenty of disk space and no other programs running.

Has anyone else seen this?

David Newman · June 22nd, 2007, 06:50 PM

Try another Firewire port, as M2T only capture is very easy. That should not be happening.

Dan Robinson · June 23rd, 2007, 05:17 PM

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately my laptop only has one firewire port. I can capture in downconverted SD (AVIs) from the camera into Premiere 1.5.1 without the problem happening. The spontaneous stops only happen in HDLink when capturing HDV.

Wayne Johnson · June 24th, 2007, 06:42 AM

I had the same problem on my old system. If I used msconfig to stop all startup services, HDLink worked fine. I never tracked down which startup function was causing the problem. Later versions of HDLink reduced, but did not eliminate, the problem.

Terry McGregor · June 25th, 2007, 05:49 PM

HDLink with the Smart Rendering option enabled, solves the first problem. The Video Sample Size remains at 32 bits.

Does anyone know the answer to my second question? What does the below number "19" represents and why was it change from 25 to 19 by HDLink?

Cineform HDLink - Converted file (millart-001.avi)
Video: 1440x1080x32, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;19, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, Cineform HD Codec 3.11
Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 00:00:14;19, Uncompressed

NOTE: This information was taken directly from the Sony Vegas Project Media Window.

David Newman · June 25th, 2007, 06:20 PM

It is not a "problem" we hardwire the number to 32-bit for Vegas for smart rendering, because Vegas likes not becuase it has any significant meaning. You are looking too hard for data that has no meaning. :)

The 25 vs 19 are the number of frames in the duration field. Often the frame at the beginning or more commonly the end of an M2T are not decodable, we don't put those frames in the AVI. If you into numerology, ask Sony why they they have counted to 25 frames on a 25 fps clip, which should only show frame numbers from 0 to 24, (as NTSC shows frames 0 to 29.)

Marc Colemont · August 19th, 2007, 10:04 AM

I recently upgraded from AspectHD to ProspectHD. So I don't know if it's related to that...
M2T Clips captured with my DR-HD100 I cannot get to convert properly to AVI through HDlink. Any file which I take (even old M2T-clips which were still on my system were I know for 100% that they work) doesn't want to convert. When it starts on the first file it stops after 250Kbyte and the progressbar goes back to zero. No errors in the Log-window.
All M2T-files play fine in VLC-player.
Does the ProspectHD compared to AspectHD needs more resources from the computer? Currently I'm still running on a P4, 3GHz, 1024MB machine.
I had originally Build 129, upgraded to build 135, but the same result.

June 2nd, 2007, 08:13 AM	#121
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	HDlink fails 25u, works hc1 Okay, not sure what is going on. If I hook my hc1 to my system, and run hdlink, sees the unit fine and I can control it. But, when I hook my 25u deck, all I get is no capure devices available. I am using Vista, and when I turn on the 25u, the system sees it just fine. Any ideas? Dave

June 11th, 2007, 06:55 PM	#124
Salah Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Patterson La. Posts: 207	HDLink Camera-Specific Capture Settings http://www.cineform.com/products/Tec...apSettings.htm I assume this was for HDV and not for HD-SDI or Hdmi to Hdsdi for a couple of the cams?

June 11th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#125
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, for HDV tape capture. The only difference is Canon 24F over HDSDI does require pulldown removal checked. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 21st, 2007, 02:58 PM	#127
Terry McGregor New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 10	HDLink conversion degrades video sample size Does anyone know why NEO HDV HDLink downgrades the Video Sample Size from 32 bit to 16 bit, when converting HDV to AVI? It also changes something else (from 25 to 19 - see results below), but I'm not sure what it is. Is there any way I can fix these problems? I also used Sony Vegas Render As to do the same thing and I compared the results. The above mentioned problems to not occur in Vegas. Here's what I did Step 1: Downloaded source file (millard.m2t) from http://www.vasst2.com/HDV/FX-1_images.htm Step 2: Used HDLink to convert millard.m2t file to .avi (Quality = High) Step 3: Used Sony Vegas to render millard.mt2 file to .avi (Quality = Best) Step 4: Compared these files in the Sony Vegas Project Media window. Here are the results Source file (millart.m2t) Video: 1440x1080x32, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;25, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, MPEG-2 Audio: 48,000 Hz, Stereo, 00:00:14;25, MPEG Layer 2 Size: 47MB Cineform HDLink - Converted file (millart-001.avi) Video: 1440x1080x16, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;19, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, Cineform HD Codec 3.11 Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 00:00:14;19, Uncompressed Size: 130MB Sony Vegas - Rendered file (millart-002.avi) Video: 1440x1080x32, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;25, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, Cineform HD Codec 3.11 Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 00:00:14;25, Uncompressed Size: 126MB

June 21st, 2007, 06:12 PM	#128
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	16 or 32-bit of almost meaningless information. It is doesn't make any difference to the file. You even use a hex editor to could 16 to 32, same file will play. 16 is really the correct value for 4:2:2 YUV data, the MPEG could even be considered to have only 12-bits per pixel. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 2nd, 2007, 08:51 AM	#122
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Same thing happens in PPro2 also. HC1 works, m25u no seen. Dave

June 2nd, 2007, 09:00 AM	#123
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Okay, found the issue. I have the unit set to convert hdv-dv. Once I turned this off, works fine. Dave

June 11th, 2007, 07:24 PM	#126
Salah Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Patterson La. Posts: 207	Figured so, but it may be a good idea to break it down from just HDV to other capture options.. You Know at first, I spent some time with the Box Varicam to figure out the HD-SDI from it,,,

June 22nd, 2007, 06:24 PM	#129
Dan Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Charleston, West Virginia Posts: 131	HDLink randomly stopping captures/playback/seeking I've been having an issue with HDLink quietly and randomly stopping captures and playback from my FX1. I'm capturing the m2t file only (no AVI conversion) from my FX1. There is no error message, the program just stops the capture anywhere from 20 seconds to 4 minutes or more in. At this point I can't do any long captures (over 4 minutes or so) because the software is always stopping it at some point. On shorter captures, I have to watch the program like a hawk, because it often stops the capture prematurely without me knowing it. HDLink will also send random 'stop' signals to the camera while I'm seeking or playing back video on the camera while it is connected via firewire. I'll be watching footage on the LCD and all of a sudden the camera will stop playing. I have to keep re-starting playback. I have plenty of disk space and no other programs running. Has anyone else seen this?

June 22nd, 2007, 06:50 PM	#130
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Try another Firewire port, as M2T only capture is very easy. That should not be happening. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 23rd, 2007, 05:17 PM	#131
Dan Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Charleston, West Virginia Posts: 131	Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately my laptop only has one firewire port. I can capture in downconverted SD (AVIs) from the camera into Premiere 1.5.1 without the problem happening. The spontaneous stops only happen in HDLink when capturing HDV.

June 24th, 2007, 06:42 AM	#132
Wayne Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Becker, MN USA Posts: 60	I had the same problem on my old system. If I used msconfig to stop all startup services, HDLink worked fine. I never tracked down which startup function was causing the problem. Later versions of HDLink reduced, but did not eliminate, the problem.

June 25th, 2007, 05:49 PM	#133
Terry McGregor New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 10	HDLink with the Smart Rendering option enabled, solves the first problem. The Video Sample Size remains at 32 bits. Does anyone know the answer to my second question? What does the below number "19" represents and why was it change from 25 to 19 by HDLink? Cineform HDLink - Converted file (millart-001.avi) Video: 1440x1080x32, 25.000fps, 00:00:14;19, Alpha=None, Field Order=Upper field first, Cineform HD Codec 3.11 Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 bit, Stereo, 00:00:14;19, Uncompressed NOTE: This information was taken directly from the Sony Vegas Project Media Window.

June 25th, 2007, 06:20 PM	#134
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It is not a "problem" we hardwire the number to 32-bit for Vegas for smart rendering, because Vegas likes not becuase it has any significant meaning. You are looking too hard for data that has no meaning. :) The 25 vs 19 are the number of frames in the duration field. Often the frame at the beginning or more commonly the end of an M2T are not decodable, we don't put those frames in the AVI. If you into numerology, ask Sony why they they have counted to 25 frames on a 25 fps clip, which should only show frame numbers from 0 to 24, (as NTSC shows frames 0 to 29.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

August 19th, 2007, 10:04 AM	#135
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Propect HDLink Stops converting after 250Kb I recently upgraded from AspectHD to ProspectHD. So I don't know if it's related to that... M2T Clips captured with my DR-HD100 I cannot get to convert properly to AVI through HDlink. Any file which I take (even old M2T-clips which were still on my system were I know for 100% that they work) doesn't want to convert. When it starts on the first file it stops after 250Kbyte and the progressbar goes back to zero. No errors in the Log-window. All M2T-files play fine in VLC-player. Does the ProspectHD compared to AspectHD needs more resources from the computer? Currently I'm still running on a P4, 3GHz, 1024MB machine. I had originally Build 129, upgraded to build 135, but the same result.