HDLink -- various questions

Bill Engeler · October 31st, 2008, 12:07 AM

My bad. Thanks for the help!

Jay Cowley · November 6th, 2008, 12:36 PM

I'm asking this because of audio sync issues I'm encountering when capturing from my HV20 using Cineform HDlink. The audio is in sync at the beginning, but my the end of the 1 hour file, it is out of sync.

How do I get around this, I was turning my camera off and back on several times when capturing to the tape, but that shouldn't cause loss of audio sync should it? And if so is there a workaround?

Jake Segraves · November 6th, 2008, 02:45 PM

You should definitely use the scene detect option. Long captures will go out of sync if there are a lot of camera stop and start points. So to answer your question, scene detect is very important. Use it and your files should be in sync. If you still run into issues, contact us at CineForm support.

Jay Cowley · November 6th, 2008, 03:26 PM

i'm concerned because I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to use scene detect. My clock was never set on my HV20 when I was doing all the filming.

So i have plenty of tapes full of stop and start footage, that I need to get captured. I guess this is going to create extra work for me, but what do I need to do to keep my audio in sync, but still convert to 24p?

Jake Segraves · November 6th, 2008, 06:08 PM

You could capture the footage with HDVSplit and then convert the files to CineForm files with HDLink in a second process. HDVSplit will recognize the scene changes.

Jay Cowley · November 6th, 2008, 08:02 PM

excellent, this is exactly what I was looking for.

What exactly does HDVsplit detect in the clips that allows it to split the scenes, that hdlink doesn't?

If I use HDVsplit to convert already captured unsplit 12gb m2t files into individual scenes, am I losing any quality? If so, I'll just re-capture all my footage over again using HDVsplit.

David Newman · November 6th, 2008, 10:57 PM

There looking at other factors. Our split mechanism works fine for all HDV source except for HV20/30's that don't have there clock set, weird I know. HDVSplit, doesn't do any conversions, so there is no loss in using it before converting the resulting files in HDLink.

Deniz Ahmet · December 1st, 2008, 02:08 PM

Guys still having some issues.

Yes I do have an AC3 decoder installed, but I am unable to get any audio playing in my converted cineform AVCHD files. No idea what is going on - Frsh install of WinXP and drivers, CS3.

To work around this I have been capturing via my Blackmagic Intensity via HDlink over HDMI from the Sony SR12E. Works, but I have another annoying problem in that the capture window blanks out for a split second here and there, resulting in skips in the recorded Cineform.

I'm using the beta Prospect HD currently.
Thanks

David Newman · December 1st, 2008, 02:57 PM

Your your source m2ts files play in Window Media Player with audio, if not HDLink will not convert them. This likely means there is still somehting wrong in your audio decoder setup.

Deniz Ahmet · December 3rd, 2008, 06:59 PM

I am stuck here.

When playing in media player there is no sound. There is if I play with VLC.
Tried various AC3 software drivers. Nothing.

ANy other ideas?

David Newman · December 3rd, 2008, 07:42 PM

You have to get audio working first which is before any CineForm tools will get involved.

This is the AC3 decoder that works for others : Download AC3 Filter 1.51a

Drop your M2TS file into GraphEdit to see why the audio is not working.

Desmond Sukotjo · December 4th, 2008, 02:32 AM

I was wondering what kind of method does HDLink use to DeInterlace? Is it what people call as Smart DeInterlacing? Where if it detects motion, then deinterlace. Or is it field blend? Or something else?

If I want a 24P results out of 50i footage, which one will give better results:

- DeInterlace 50i to 25P -> Edit 25P -> Output 25P -> Convert 25P to 24P.

- Edit 50i -> Output 50i -> Convert 50i to 24P.

- Convert 50i to 24P -> Edit 24P.

The third workflow leads me to a question, does HDLink do great job converting 50i to 24P or will I get better result using Magic Bullet Frame?

Thanks in advance.

David Newman · December 4th, 2008, 10:16 AM

It is a modified linear light field blend. It works best on sources with a shutter speed that matches the field rate (i.e. 50Hz for 50i, 60Hz for 60i), the results are more resolution than deinterlace typically offers. We don't find smart deinterlacers all that successful, neither preserving much resolution or have a predictable motion blur. For you use HDLink you can deinterlace and convert to 24p in one step, with audio pitch compensation.

Deniz Ahmet · December 7th, 2008, 08:29 AM

Clarification please on getting HDLINK to convert with sound...

Bill Ravens · December 7th, 2008, 08:33 AM

Deniz...

d/l and install ffdshow and x264 on your computer. they're free and it will allow playing of avchd on wmp.

November 6th, 2008, 12:36 PM	#272
Jay Cowley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 141	how important is scene detection when capturing from HDlink with 2:3 pulldown I'm asking this because of audio sync issues I'm encountering when capturing from my HV20 using Cineform HDlink. The audio is in sync at the beginning, but my the end of the 1 hour file, it is out of sync. How do I get around this, I was turning my camera off and back on several times when capturing to the tape, but that shouldn't cause loss of audio sync should it? And if so is there a workaround?

November 6th, 2008, 10:57 PM	#277
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	There looking at other factors. Our split mechanism works fine for all HDV source except for HV20/30's that don't have there clock set, weird I know. HDVSplit, doesn't do any conversions, so there is no loss in using it before converting the resulting files in HDLink. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 1st, 2008, 02:08 PM	#278
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	HDLINK and AVCHD Guys still having some issues. Yes I do have an AC3 decoder installed, but I am unable to get any audio playing in my converted cineform AVCHD files. No idea what is going on - Frsh install of WinXP and drivers, CS3. To work around this I have been capturing via my Blackmagic Intensity via HDlink over HDMI from the Sony SR12E. Works, but I have another annoying problem in that the capture window blanks out for a split second here and there, resulting in skips in the recorded Cineform. I'm using the beta Prospect HD currently. Thanks

December 1st, 2008, 02:57 PM	#279
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Your your source m2ts files play in Window Media Player with audio, if not HDLink will not convert them. This likely means there is still somehting wrong in your audio decoder setup. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 3rd, 2008, 06:59 PM	#280
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	still not working I am stuck here. When playing in media player there is no sound. There is if I play with VLC. Tried various AC3 software drivers. Nothing. ANy other ideas?

October 31st, 2008, 12:07 AM	#271
Bill Engeler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brussels, Belgium Posts: 162	My bad. Thanks for the help!

November 6th, 2008, 02:45 PM	#273
Jake Segraves Sponsor: CineForm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 153	You should definitely use the scene detect option. Long captures will go out of sync if there are a lot of camera stop and start points. So to answer your question, scene detect is very important. Use it and your files should be in sync. If you still run into issues, contact us at CineForm support.

November 6th, 2008, 03:26 PM	#274
Jay Cowley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 141	i'm concerned because I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to use scene detect. My clock was never set on my HV20 when I was doing all the filming. So i have plenty of tapes full of stop and start footage, that I need to get captured. I guess this is going to create extra work for me, but what do I need to do to keep my audio in sync, but still convert to 24p?

November 6th, 2008, 06:08 PM	#275
Jake Segraves Sponsor: CineForm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 153	You could capture the footage with HDVSplit and then convert the files to CineForm files with HDLink in a second process. HDVSplit will recognize the scene changes.

November 6th, 2008, 08:02 PM	#276
Jay Cowley Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 141	excellent, this is exactly what I was looking for. What exactly does HDVsplit detect in the clips that allows it to split the scenes, that hdlink doesn't? If I use HDVsplit to convert already captured unsplit 12gb m2t files into individual scenes, am I losing any quality? If so, I'll just re-capture all my footage over again using HDVsplit.

December 3rd, 2008, 07:42 PM	#281
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You have to get audio working first which is before any CineForm tools will get involved. This is the AC3 decoder that works for others : Download AC3 Filter 1.51a Drop your M2TS file into GraphEdit to see why the audio is not working. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 4th, 2008, 02:32 AM	#282
Desmond Sukotjo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 88	HDLink DeInterlace. I was wondering what kind of method does HDLink use to DeInterlace? Is it what people call as Smart DeInterlacing? Where if it detects motion, then deinterlace. Or is it field blend? Or something else? If I want a 24P results out of 50i footage, which one will give better results: - DeInterlace 50i to 25P -> Edit 25P -> Output 25P -> Convert 25P to 24P. - Edit 50i -> Output 50i -> Convert 50i to 24P. - Convert 50i to 24P -> Edit 24P. The third workflow leads me to a question, does HDLink do great job converting 50i to 24P or will I get better result using Magic Bullet Frame? Thanks in advance.

December 4th, 2008, 10:16 AM	#283
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It is a modified linear light field blend. It works best on sources with a shutter speed that matches the field rate (i.e. 50Hz for 50i, 60Hz for 60i), the results are more resolution than deinterlace typically offers. We don't find smart deinterlacers all that successful, neither preserving much resolution or have a predictable motion blur. For you use HDLink you can deinterlace and convert to 24p in one step, with audio pitch compensation. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 7th, 2008, 08:29 AM	#284
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	Hdlink - avchd Clarification please on getting HDLINK to convert with sound...

December 7th, 2008, 08:33 AM	#285
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Deniz... d/l and install ffdshow and x264 on your computer. they're free and it will allow playing of avchd on wmp.