CineForm and Adobe Premiere Pro -- various questions

Mike Quinones · January 4th, 2007, 08:31 PM

Hi Geoff;
I know the question was not directed to me, but that news has made my day. Also can you post the link for the news? Thanks Mike Q.

Geoff Murillo · January 4th, 2007, 10:02 PM

Hi Mike,

Here are two links.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01...iere/index.php

http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01...ysis/index.php

-Geoff

David Newman · January 4th, 2007, 10:24 PM

Yes this is good news for CineForm, although we will be on the Mac well before the availability of Premiere Pro. We see a lot of opportunity.

Heath McKnight · January 5th, 2007, 02:02 PM

David,

Do you have more news on CineForm for Mac, or a link to info? I'm really curious about this.

Thanks,

Heath

David Taylor · January 5th, 2007, 02:56 PM

We haven't formally published any news about our MacOS port, although we often use this forum as an unofficial update platform. We realize many are interested in this, so I'll take this opportunity to give you an update.

First of all we acknowledge that our port to MacOS has taken longer than we originally anticipated. Vagaries of OS's, wrappers, and magic potions for FCP/QT (without any documentation) have played havoc with our schedule.

The good news is that we really are making progress, albeit slower than originally hoped. We are actually playing 10-bit CineForm MOV files in FCP - this is the first time we've acknowledged this. There are still issues that remain that we are working on, so "no" we're not yet ready for a release. But please realize that our port to MacOS is a very high priority of ours.

For those of you following our product releases, we are already shipping CineForm QT compatibility in Windows. That means you can render a CineForm AVI to a CineForm QT on Windows (in Prospect HD) and use the extended (10-bit) precision of CineForm MOV files in other apps like Combustion. QT Windows was Step 1 in moving to QT MacOS. On a longer term basis we will allow you to capture directly into a CineForm MOV files (rather than AVI). The CineForm MOV files will be directly compatible with both Windows and MacOS. So you'll be able to move files back and forth between platforms with no conversions requires. For those interested in experimenting with CineForm QT on Windows, download our Trial version of Prospect HD - you'll see CineForm MOV as an export option. BTW, you can use the CineForm AVI and CineForm QT files side-by-side on the PremPro timeline interchangably - both have the same RT performance. We haven't yet included MOV support in Aspect HD or Connect HD.

We're excited about finally releasing CineForm MacOS QT because it'll make CineForm Intermediate (and CineForm RAW) truly OS, platform, and application-independent.

Heath McKnight · January 5th, 2007, 03:07 PM

David T.,

Thanks so much for the update! This is exciting news to hear.

Heath

Alex Hatz · January 24th, 2007, 12:34 AM

Hi,

I've just installed my Parhelia (what a nightmare) in my current set up. When I preview with Aspect HD, it outputs to my TV just fine, although it will not scrub. (yes, I have checked the overlay box in the Aspect playback options).

However when I play a DV project (no Aspect) it will not play on my TV? I've tried various Playback settings in the Project setting but nothing works. I've also installed the Matrox Premiere Plug-In.

I'm currently running a Radeon card powering my primary DVI display, and I have a VGA monitor and my TV connected to the Parhelia.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Alex

David Newman · January 24th, 2007, 12:39 AM

The Parhelia may not like sharing with the Radeon card. The Parhelia setups most customers use is the Parhelia alone.

Alex Hatz · January 24th, 2007, 08:51 AM

I don't think that's the problem. If I play a file with Windows media player outside Premiere, it works fine. Also, I've seen a couple of posts describing people using two cards.

Graham Hickling · January 24th, 2007, 10:37 AM

I don't have a Parhelia, so I'm just guessing, but I agree with David that with 2 video cards (and thus effectively 4 or 5 video outputs, depending on if the Radeon is dual-head) either the WYSIWYG plugin, or Premiere itself, is getting confused about what the primary monitor is and/or else what the firewire output source is.

Maybe the plugin assumes/requires that the Parhelia be the primary monitor?

And, Premiere may be looking for a hardware firewire port to output DV to (since that's what it would do if you just had the Radeon installed).

Edit: Oh and, while using 2 generic cards is common, I dont think using an extra card with the 3-output Parhelia/plugin combo will have been tried by many people.

Alex Hatz · January 24th, 2007, 11:26 AM

I'm trying to use just the parhelia now, but it will only see my DVI monitor and not my VGA monitor. I've tried removing all the drivers, hidden drivers, moved the card to a different PCIe slot, all to no avail.

Oh the frustration.

THanks to all for your input.

Ben Winter · January 24th, 2007, 12:29 PM

Go to the Matrox PowerDesk control panel. Click Video Playback Settings, then make sure to check the Use video overlay *and* Use PureVideo/DVDMax box.

Alex Hatz · January 24th, 2007, 03:06 PM

So I finally got something to work again with just the Parhelia, but it still will not preview DV footage in Premiere, but Aspect is fine. It will preview DV footage out the Firewire cable however.

The only way I can get it to work is to stretch the display, but since the monitors are different (DVI and VGA) the resolution that I have to use is not ideal.

I think I have to go back to the Radeon for my DVI monitor, and Parhelia for the VGA and TV. But I still wont be able to Preview DV footage on Premiere with the Parhelia.

What a pain. I guess I have to go buy another DVI monitor. Sheesh!!!!

January 4th, 2007, 10:24 PM	#63
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes this is good news for CineForm, although we will be on the Mac well before the availability of Premiere Pro. We see a lot of opportunity. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2007, 02:02 PM	#64
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	David, Do you have more news on CineForm for Mac, or a link to info? I'm really curious about this. Thanks, Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 5th, 2007, 02:56 PM	#65
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	We haven't formally published any news about our MacOS port, although we often use this forum as an unofficial update platform. We realize many are interested in this, so I'll take this opportunity to give you an update. First of all we acknowledge that our port to MacOS has taken longer than we originally anticipated. Vagaries of OS's, wrappers, and magic potions for FCP/QT (without any documentation) have played havoc with our schedule. The good news is that we really are making progress, albeit slower than originally hoped. We are actually playing 10-bit CineForm MOV files in FCP - this is the first time we've acknowledged this. There are still issues that remain that we are working on, so "no" we're not yet ready for a release. But please realize that our port to MacOS is a very high priority of ours. For those of you following our product releases, we are already shipping CineForm QT compatibility in Windows. That means you can render a CineForm AVI to a CineForm QT on Windows (in Prospect HD) and use the extended (10-bit) precision of CineForm MOV files in other apps like Combustion. QT Windows was Step 1 in moving to QT MacOS. On a longer term basis we will allow you to capture directly into a CineForm MOV files (rather than AVI). The CineForm MOV files will be directly compatible with both Windows and MacOS. So you'll be able to move files back and forth between platforms with no conversions requires. For those interested in experimenting with CineForm QT on Windows, download our Trial version of Prospect HD - you'll see CineForm MOV as an export option. BTW, you can use the CineForm AVI and CineForm QT files side-by-side on the PremPro timeline interchangably - both have the same RT performance. We haven't yet included MOV support in Aspect HD or Connect HD. We're excited about finally releasing CineForm MacOS QT because it'll make CineForm Intermediate (and CineForm RAW) truly OS, platform, and application-independent. Last edited by David Taylor; January 5th, 2007 at 03:52 PM.

January 5th, 2007, 03:07 PM	#66
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	David T., Thanks so much for the update! This is exciting news to hear. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 24th, 2007, 12:34 AM	#67
Alex Hatz New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 14	Premiere and Parhelia wont preview Hi, I've just installed my Parhelia (what a nightmare) in my current set up. When I preview with Aspect HD, it outputs to my TV just fine, although it will not scrub. (yes, I have checked the overlay box in the Aspect playback options). However when I play a DV project (no Aspect) it will not play on my TV? I've tried various Playback settings in the Project setting but nothing works. I've also installed the Matrox Premiere Plug-In. I'm currently running a Radeon card powering my primary DVI display, and I have a VGA monitor and my TV connected to the Parhelia. Any thoughts? Thanks, Alex

January 4th, 2007, 08:31 PM	#61
Mike Quinones Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Melreso Park IL. Posts: 89	Hi Geoff; I know the question was not directed to me, but that news has made my day. Also can you post the link for the news? Thanks Mike Q.

January 4th, 2007, 10:02 PM	#62
Geoff Murillo Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 92	Hi Mike, Here are two links. http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01...iere/index.php http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/01...ysis/index.php -Geoff

January 24th, 2007, 12:39 AM	#68
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The Parhelia may not like sharing with the Radeon card. The Parhelia setups most customers use is the Parhelia alone. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 24th, 2007, 08:51 AM	#69
Alex Hatz New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 14	I don't think that's the problem. If I play a file with Windows media player outside Premiere, it works fine. Also, I've seen a couple of posts describing people using two cards.

January 24th, 2007, 10:37 AM	#70
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	I don't have a Parhelia, so I'm just guessing, but I agree with David that with 2 video cards (and thus effectively 4 or 5 video outputs, depending on if the Radeon is dual-head) either the WYSIWYG plugin, or Premiere itself, is getting confused about what the primary monitor is and/or else what the firewire output source is. Maybe the plugin assumes/requires that the Parhelia be the primary monitor? And, Premiere may be looking for a hardware firewire port to output DV to (since that's what it would do if you just had the Radeon installed). Edit: Oh and, while using 2 generic cards is common, I dont think using an extra card with the 3-output Parhelia/plugin combo will have been tried by many people.

January 24th, 2007, 11:26 AM	#71
Alex Hatz New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 14	I'm trying to use just the parhelia now, but it will only see my DVI monitor and not my VGA monitor. I've tried removing all the drivers, hidden drivers, moved the card to a different PCIe slot, all to no avail. Oh the frustration. THanks to all for your input.

January 24th, 2007, 12:29 PM	#72
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	Go to the Matrox PowerDesk control panel. Click Video Playback Settings, then make sure to check the Use video overlay and Use PureVideo/DVDMax box. __________________ BenWinter.com

January 24th, 2007, 03:06 PM	#73
Alex Hatz New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 14	So I finally got something to work again with just the Parhelia, but it still will not preview DV footage in Premiere, but Aspect is fine. It will preview DV footage out the Firewire cable however. The only way I can get it to work is to stretch the display, but since the monitors are different (DVI and VGA) the resolution that I have to use is not ideal. I think I have to go back to the Radeon for my DVI monitor, and Parhelia for the VGA and TV. But I still wont be able to Preview DV footage on Premiere with the Parhelia. What a pain. I guess I have to go buy another DVI monitor. Sheesh!!!!