HDLink Random "dropped frames" after conversion at DVinfo.net

Matt Vanecek · July 30th, 2009, 07:12 PM

This is pretty annoying. When rendering an HDV 30p set of files to 1920x1080 30p CFHD AVIs, there are a couple of frames together that look like dropped frames. The problem occurs in a different place every time I re-convert the files, and doesn't happen in all the files all the time. The source files were from a Firestore and MRC1, so no tape involved. It always just one spot in the video that I can tell, but it's a different spot with every conversion.

I've turned off everything I know to turn of, on the converting machine (which is dedicated video editor using Intel i7, 12GB RAM, source drive = SATA, dest drive = eSATA RAID). I'm at a loss. Through numerous conversions, I've got two files that *finally* converted cleanly. Hoping another couple of cycles will get the others.

I know it's a dropped frame because the video before and after the "drop" is about a frame-and-a-half off from what it should be. Aside from the "dropped-frame"-ish pixelation at that spot.

Has anybody else seen/fixed this type of thing?

This is with 4.0.8 b217.

Thanks,
Matt

David Newman · July 30th, 2009, 08:12 PM

"the "dropped-frame"-ish pixelation at that spot." This is an MPEG error, and if it random, you are losing data when reading your source, and has nothing to do with HDLink. When we are hooked to a camera, we normally find the fault with the firewire port. As FireWire is out of this setup, try moving your source to a different device, becuase something is being flakey.

Matt Vanecek · July 30th, 2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

As FireWire is out of this setup, try moving your source to a different device, becuase something is being flakey.

Crap. My wife's not gonna like it if I gotta buy more (and expensive...) hard drives....

Thanks,
Matt

Greg Kubitschek · July 31st, 2009, 08:12 AM

I have had a similiar problem.

I have used both a fire store transfer and convert with HD link and material taken from my Canon HV-20, off tape to HD-Link. I have been getting the drop out issue you are describing. I don't thnik its drives, or Ram. I let HD-Link automatically take materail off of a couple of tapes I hade and there was a hig degree of MPEG breakup in the files. Very random, because it wouldn't occur in the same place in the video.

However, with the same setup, if I manually imported the footage, shot by shot with the Cineform codec, but through Adobe's capture window, the shots and footage was flawless all the time.

When I filed a tech support ticket a while back, granted when they were really busy, It was suggested to capture/transfer the video first and then use HD link to place the HDV into tohe CIneform codec. The extra step didn't work and took extra time.

I've had great luck in the past capturing entire tapes, but without changing any hardware, why one method works and the other is flaky is elusive.

Greg Kubitschek

Matt Vanecek · July 31st, 2009, 11:27 AM

So it *could* be HDLink. Doing a file-based conversion, it *should* be reading the information from the hard drive, and throwing an error if the IO stream is interrupted or burps. So what I would *expect* to happen if HDLink detects a "dropped frame", or an interruption in the stream, is for it to log an error and stop processing the file. So either HDLink is not detecting a stream blip, or the system is not reporting a stream blip, or the encoder is causing the blip, or there's a blip writing the output stream that's not being detected or reported.

lots of breakpoints--be hard to determine which one was actually the culprit. Plus, after several conversion attempts, all files are now successfully converted. *shrug* very weird. It *could* be a system problem, but it could also be an HDLink problem. This has been a problem across a couple different machines, starting with later versions of AspectHD and becoming more chronic in ProspectHD. My workflow has altered a bit these days as a workaround--edit the M2T files during the various iterations of HDLink conversions, and when I finally get a clean convert, drop in the CFHD file.

Other people having the same or similar issue points more towards an application issue than to a system issue, but it is certainly possible that all the customers' machines have similar issues if it's a system issue...

Thanks,
Matt

Greg Kubitschek · July 31st, 2009, 02:54 PM

Great problem thinking Matt. Yes I agree, up until about the last release of Aspect, no problem with this ever. Now through this spring and summer, more and more issues with this dropped frame thing.

I am one of the many that still runs CS3 with The latest Prosepect HD release. Waiting for the RT for CS4 to come out. I think all the CS4 release really screwed up the SDK for the developers worse than most of us truly know.

July 30th, 2009, 07:12 PM	#1
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	HDLink Random "dropped frames" after conversion This is pretty annoying. When rendering an HDV 30p set of files to 1920x1080 30p CFHD AVIs, there are a couple of frames together that look like dropped frames. The problem occurs in a different place every time I re-convert the files, and doesn't happen in all the files all the time. The source files were from a Firestore and MRC1, so no tape involved. It always just one spot in the video that I can tell, but it's a different spot with every conversion. I've turned off everything I know to turn of, on the converting machine (which is dedicated video editor using Intel i7, 12GB RAM, source drive = SATA, dest drive = eSATA RAID). I'm at a loss. Through numerous conversions, I've got two files that finally converted cleanly. Hoping another couple of cycles will get the others. I know it's a dropped frame because the video before and after the "drop" is about a frame-and-a-half off from what it should be. Aside from the "dropped-frame"-ish pixelation at that spot. Has anybody else seen/fixed this type of thing? This is with 4.0.8 b217. Thanks, Matt

July 30th, 2009, 08:12 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	"the "dropped-frame"-ish pixelation at that spot." This is an MPEG error, and if it random, you are losing data when reading your source, and has nothing to do with HDLink. When we are hooked to a camera, we normally find the fault with the firewire port. As FireWire is out of this setup, try moving your source to a different device, becuase something is being flakey. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

July 31st, 2009, 08:12 AM	#4
Greg Kubitschek Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 34	Similiar problem I have had a similiar problem. I have used both a fire store transfer and convert with HD link and material taken from my Canon HV-20, off tape to HD-Link. I have been getting the drop out issue you are describing. I don't thnik its drives, or Ram. I let HD-Link automatically take materail off of a couple of tapes I hade and there was a hig degree of MPEG breakup in the files. Very random, because it wouldn't occur in the same place in the video. However, with the same setup, if I manually imported the footage, shot by shot with the Cineform codec, but through Adobe's capture window, the shots and footage was flawless all the time. When I filed a tech support ticket a while back, granted when they were really busy, It was suggested to capture/transfer the video first and then use HD link to place the HDV into tohe CIneform codec. The extra step didn't work and took extra time. I've had great luck in the past capturing entire tapes, but without changing any hardware, why one method works and the other is flaky is elusive. Greg Kubitschek

July 31st, 2009, 02:54 PM	#6
Greg Kubitschek Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 34	Good problem thinking Great problem thinking Matt. Yes I agree, up until about the last release of Aspect, no problem with this ever. Now through this spring and summer, more and more issues with this dropped frame thing. I am one of the many that still runs CS3 with The latest Prosepect HD release. Waiting for the RT for CS4 to come out. I think all the CS4 release really screwed up the SDK for the developers worse than most of us truly know.

July 31st, 2009, 11:27 AM	#5
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	So it could be HDLink. Doing a file-based conversion, it should be reading the information from the hard drive, and throwing an error if the IO stream is interrupted or burps. So what I would expect to happen if HDLink detects a "dropped frame", or an interruption in the stream, is for it to log an error and stop processing the file. So either HDLink is not detecting a stream blip, or the system is not reporting a stream blip, or the encoder is causing the blip, or there's a blip writing the output stream that's not being detected or reported. lots of breakpoints--be hard to determine which one was actually the culprit. Plus, after several conversion attempts, all files are now successfully converted. shrug very weird. It could be a system problem, but it could also be an HDLink problem. This has been a problem across a couple different machines, starting with later versions of AspectHD and becoming more chronic in ProspectHD. My workflow has altered a bit these days as a workaround--edit the M2T files during the various iterations of HDLink conversions, and when I finally get a clean convert, drop in the CFHD file. Other people having the same or similar issue points more towards an application issue than to a system issue, but it is certainly possible that all the customers' machines have similar issues if it's a system issue... Thanks, Matt