RAW vs FilmScan at DVinfo.net

Alex Raskin · July 16th, 2009, 10:00 AM

Is there an advantage to record in RAW vs FilmScan?

I've built (yet another! what is it, the 5th?) PC that captures HD-SDI 1080p24 into Cineform FilmScan.

Say, SI-2K utilizes Cineform RAW instead.

Should I be looking that way, too? Why?

(BTW, I currently have Prospect HD 3.4.0 and it seems to be able to read RAW files from SI-2K web site's samples section.)

David Newman · July 16th, 2009, 11:36 AM

Those or not the same concept. RAW is like 422 is to 444, Filmscan is quality setting. The SI-2K encodes RAW formatting in Filmscan 1 or 2 quality. If you don't have a CFA Bayer RAW sensor source, you don;t need RAW encoding. CineForm RAW is for SI-2K, ARRI D21, Dalsa, Phantom and Red.

Alex Raskin · July 16th, 2009, 11:54 AM

Did you just say Red?

So now there is a native Cineform workflow while acquiring image in RED?

That would change the game for me... I was reluctant to look at the new Scarlet/Epic with FF35 sensors because I'd rather stick with the Cineform workflow and these cams dont seem to support taht natively?

Alex Raskin · July 16th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

PC that captures HD-SDI 1080p24 into Cineform FilmScan.

1. David, any specific settings that you would recommend with this setup?

I usually set the cam to output 24PsF via HD-SDI - so HDLink would not have to waste processor cycles removing 3:2 pulldown from the 60i signal.

2. Currently I'm capturing in FilmScan. Should I change to FilmScan2 ? What would be the benefit of that vs file size increase if any?

3. I do not see any additional controls in HDLink except for the quality setting like High vs FilmScan etc. Does it automatically capture in 444 when i choose FilmScan?

Thanks!

David Newman · July 16th, 2009, 12:37 PM

We use the RED SDK and transcode to CineForm RAW (or 444 or 422) as needed. Yes it would be 10X easier to post it if was CineForm native, but you can batch your conversions.

1. Yes that is best.
2. Filmscan is fine, that is what I use for everything (or High if my outputs are down res'd.) Filmscan 2 is just for the extra paranoid.
3. HDLink is 4:2:2 single link only. For 444 captures, you need a 444 source (Genesis, F23, Viper, etc) and dual link HDSDI (Xena 2Ke) and a tool like CineDDR. Filmscan is just a quality setting, so we have 422 Filmscan and 444 Filmscan. The quality setting go it name from scanning projects that converts DPX source to CineForm.

Alex Raskin · July 16th, 2009, 01:37 PM

I'm sure this is a very basic thing, but would you kindly explain further please...

I do understand that the incoming signal is 422 as fed in by the HD-SDI single link.

(And it looks like it is 10bit coming out of EX1).

Now, when I tell HDLink to capture into FilmScan... that resulting AVI file... is it 10-bit 444 (but actually filled with 422 color info), or not?

Sorry if this sounds silly.

David Newman · July 16th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Not. It is a 10-bit 4:2:2 AVI, there is no value to up convert to 4:4:4 RGB at that encoding stage. Also Prospect HD doesn't support 4:4:4 encoding (need 4K for that.) The reason to use 4:4:4, is for keying from 4:4:4 sources, film or ever expensive cameras, or other heavy effects work. Most of the time 4:2:2 is plenty for a source encode, even within a 4:4:4 composite.

Alex Raskin · July 16th, 2009, 02:47 PM

Thanks David!

Hey, enjoy your 3D joystick man ;)

I'm on Twitter too now.

July 16th, 2009, 10:00 AM	#1
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	RAW vs FilmScan Is there an advantage to record in RAW vs FilmScan? I've built (yet another! what is it, the 5th?) PC that captures HD-SDI 1080p24 into Cineform FilmScan. Say, SI-2K utilizes Cineform RAW instead. Should I be looking that way, too? Why? (BTW, I currently have Prospect HD 3.4.0 and it seems to be able to read RAW files from SI-2K web site's samples section.)

July 16th, 2009, 11:36 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Those or not the same concept. RAW is like 422 is to 444, Filmscan is quality setting. The SI-2K encodes RAW formatting in Filmscan 1 or 2 quality. If you don't have a CFA Bayer RAW sensor source, you don;t need RAW encoding. CineForm RAW is for SI-2K, ARRI D21, Dalsa, Phantom and Red. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

July 16th, 2009, 12:37 PM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	We use the RED SDK and transcode to CineForm RAW (or 444 or 422) as needed. Yes it would be 10X easier to post it if was CineForm native, but you can batch your conversions. 1. Yes that is best. 2. Filmscan is fine, that is what I use for everything (or High if my outputs are down res'd.) Filmscan 2 is just for the extra paranoid. 3. HDLink is 4:2:2 single link only. For 444 captures, you need a 444 source (Genesis, F23, Viper, etc) and dual link HDSDI (Xena 2Ke) and a tool like CineDDR. Filmscan is just a quality setting, so we have 422 Filmscan and 444 Filmscan. The quality setting go it name from scanning projects that converts DPX source to CineForm. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

July 16th, 2009, 02:37 PM	#7
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Not. It is a 10-bit 4:2:2 AVI, there is no value to up convert to 4:4:4 RGB at that encoding stage. Also Prospect HD doesn't support 4:4:4 encoding (need 4K for that.) The reason to use 4:4:4, is for keying from 4:4:4 sources, film or ever expensive cameras, or other heavy effects work. Most of the time 4:2:2 is plenty for a source encode, even within a 4:4:4 composite. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

July 16th, 2009, 11:54 AM	#3
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Did you just say Red? So now there is a native Cineform workflow while acquiring image in RED? That would change the game for me... I was reluctant to look at the new Scarlet/Epic with FF35 sensors because I'd rather stick with the Cineform workflow and these cams dont seem to support taht natively?

July 16th, 2009, 01:37 PM	#6
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	I'm sure this is a very basic thing, but would you kindly explain further please... I do understand that the incoming signal is 422 as fed in by the HD-SDI single link. (And it looks like it is 10bit coming out of EX1). Now, when I tell HDLink to capture into FilmScan... that resulting AVI file... is it 10-bit 444 (but actually filled with 422 color info), or not? Sorry if this sounds silly.

July 16th, 2009, 02:47 PM	#8
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Thanks David! Hey, enjoy your 3D joystick man ;) I'm on Twitter too now.