First Light corrected .MOV's playback only 15fps on Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz at DVinfo.net

Brian Welles · June 3rd, 2009, 03:03 PM

Yes, I am aware that the minimum system requirement listed on Cineform.com is a minimum of 2.66Ghz Core2Duo. And, that performance will suffer with lesser computers.

If I replace my existing laptop with one that meets the minimum system requirements, which I am prepared to do, will it playback my Cineform files, with "active metadata" such as white balance and gamma adjustments, and possibly a 3D LUT, in realtime from my Final Cut Pro timeline, out to an HD-SDI monitor, in real time, at 30FPS? If not, what kind of Mac do I need?

This capability is impressive to me. I don't mind buying a new computer to have it.

David Newman · June 3rd, 2009, 04:19 PM

Any on the current i7 based Mac Pros will do it, even better with a Kona card (with the new CineForm aware AJA drivers -- due out about now.)

Brian Welles · June 3rd, 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Any on the current i7 based Mac Pros will do it, even better with a Kona card (with the new CineForm aware AJA drivers -- due out about now.)

I am sure it works great on a Mac Pro.. what about a laptop based system?

David Newman · June 3rd, 2009, 05:43 PM

You said "out to an HD-SDI monitor" so I assumed a desktop/workstation. Laptop solutions via AJA IOExpress have not been tested yet, plus I'm not sure if they would be fast even to do a 3D LUT (the base Active Metadata stuff should be okay on a sweet laptop.)

Brian Welles · June 3rd, 2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

You said "out to an HD-SDI monitor" so I assumed a desktop/workstation. Laptop solutions via AJA IOExpress have not been tested yet, plus I'm not sure if they would be fast even to do a 3D LUT (the base Active Metadata stuff should be okay on a sweet laptop.)

I am sorry. I have a Matrox MXO-2 on a Macbook Pro going out via HD-SDI to a Panasonic BT-LH1760. I will maybe try to USB key some footage onto a friend's computer, to see if it meets my needs.

Thanks for the advice!

Brian Welles · June 3rd, 2009, 08:20 PM

Oh nevermind. My 6 month old Macbook Pro can't even play non- First Light Cineform files at more than 15fps. Even on the laptop screen. Without any external monitors connected. Good thing you included the Pro Res option in NeoScene! ProRes HQ plays just great on my laptop screen. And on my 17" HD monitor.

Of course, I can't understand how ProRes HQ files play just fine, but the much smaller Cineform files limp along, at half speed, on the same hardware. At this point, First Light really, truthfully does not help my workflow at all since the files need to be playable on other computers, besides big expensive workstations.

Is my experience consistent with your other users? OR can some laptops play these files?

Kaspar Kallas · June 4th, 2009, 01:26 AM

Hi

Fullrez on laptop is not possible as of now. It should play fine in the Canvas in FCP even with 3D LUT, but it will not play out even cinema desktop at 30fps.

The smaller file is MUCH better quality than ProRez and it uses different compression algorithm (Wavelet VS DCT) what takes much more computing power not to mention the active meta-data that also needs to be applied.

Different beasts for different needs, also the Firstlight stuff is bleeding edge (and it is bleeding in many cases) so expect to need ludicrous HW at the beginning to get the max out of this.

NB! Make sure you use bilinear debayer for 8bit

-Kaspar

David Taylor · June 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM

BTW, CineForm's decompressor is about to get measurably faster in the next few days with our next Mac release. The performance improvement will probably be appreciated most on laptops and "tired" machines....

Craig Davidson · June 7th, 2009, 10:57 AM

The new builds were posted on Friday. Build 91 (2.3.8.91) is twice as fast on a Macbook. 1080p 29.97 plays full frame rate in QuickTime on a Macbook 2.2 Ghz using about half the processor compared to 15 fps on the previous version with the same processor use.

If you change the White Balance in FirstLight, it does take more processing, so QuickTime will drop the frame rate in half.

Bob Hart · June 8th, 2009, 04:22 AM

David.

I might have missed something by reading too faast or am just delusional. A comment above makes me ask - Is there a tool in Prospect for PC which will export a Mac usable ProRes HD file for somebody at another end who does not want to populate his FCP edit suite with plug-ins? Or is a Quicktime .mov file the only option.

If I could do this out of the SI2K I would be in even sweeterer pigheaven. I understand and accept that such a function would compromise your commercial viability as people with established FCP edit suites would simply not move out of their way any more than they think they need to.

David Taylor · June 8th, 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hart

David.

Is there a tool in Prospect for PC which will export a Mac usable ProRes HD file ? Or is a Quicktime .mov file the only option.

Bob, Apple does not offer a ProRes encoder for Windows, so it is not an option. But on Windows you can generate a CineForm MOV file.

June 3rd, 2009, 03:03 PM	#1
Brian Welles New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 11	First Light corrected .MOV's playback only 15fps on Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz Yes, I am aware that the minimum system requirement listed on Cineform.com is a minimum of 2.66Ghz Core2Duo. And, that performance will suffer with lesser computers. If I replace my existing laptop with one that meets the minimum system requirements, which I am prepared to do, will it playback my Cineform files, with "active metadata" such as white balance and gamma adjustments, and possibly a 3D LUT, in realtime from my Final Cut Pro timeline, out to an HD-SDI monitor, in real time, at 30FPS? If not, what kind of Mac do I need? This capability is impressive to me. I don't mind buying a new computer to have it.

June 3rd, 2009, 04:19 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Any on the current i7 based Mac Pros will do it, even better with a Kona card (with the new CineForm aware AJA drivers -- due out about now.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 3rd, 2009, 05:43 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You said "out to an HD-SDI monitor" so I assumed a desktop/workstation. Laptop solutions via AJA IOExpress have not been tested yet, plus I'm not sure if they would be fast even to do a 3D LUT (the base Active Metadata stuff should be okay on a sweet laptop.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 3rd, 2009, 08:20 PM	#6
Brian Welles New Boot Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 11	Oh nevermind. My 6 month old Macbook Pro can't even play non- First Light Cineform files at more than 15fps. Even on the laptop screen. Without any external monitors connected. Good thing you included the Pro Res option in NeoScene! ProRes HQ plays just great on my laptop screen. And on my 17" HD monitor. Of course, I can't understand how ProRes HQ files play just fine, but the much smaller Cineform files limp along, at half speed, on the same hardware. At this point, First Light really, truthfully does not help my workflow at all since the files need to be playable on other computers, besides big expensive workstations. Is my experience consistent with your other users? OR can some laptops play these files?

June 4th, 2009, 01:26 AM	#7
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Hi Fullrez on laptop is not possible as of now. It should play fine in the Canvas in FCP even with 3D LUT, but it will not play out even cinema desktop at 30fps. The smaller file is MUCH better quality than ProRez and it uses different compression algorithm (Wavelet VS DCT) what takes much more computing power not to mention the active meta-data that also needs to be applied. Different beasts for different needs, also the Firstlight stuff is bleeding edge (and it is bleeding in many cases) so expect to need ludicrous HW at the beginning to get the max out of this. NB! Make sure you use bilinear debayer for 8bit -Kaspar

June 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM	#8
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	BTW, CineForm's decompressor is about to get measurably faster in the next few days with our next Mac release. The performance improvement will probably be appreciated most on laptops and "tired" machines....

June 7th, 2009, 10:57 AM	#9
Craig Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 142	The new builds were posted on Friday. Build 91 (2.3.8.91) is twice as fast on a Macbook. 1080p 29.97 plays full frame rate in QuickTime on a Macbook 2.2 Ghz using about half the processor compared to 15 fps on the previous version with the same processor use. If you change the White Balance in FirstLight, it does take more processing, so QuickTime will drop the frame rate in half.

June 8th, 2009, 04:22 AM	#10
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	David. I might have missed something by reading too faast or am just delusional. A comment above makes me ask - Is there a tool in Prospect for PC which will export a Mac usable ProRes HD file for somebody at another end who does not want to populate his FCP edit suite with plug-ins? Or is a Quicktime .mov file the only option. If I could do this out of the SI2K I would be in even sweeterer pigheaven. I understand and accept that such a function would compromise your commercial viability as people with established FCP edit suites would simply not move out of their way any more than they think they need to.