24f showing as 29.97 in CS3???? at DVinfo.net

Scott Gold · May 30th, 2009, 11:43 AM

Shot footage in 24f 1080 HDV on a XH-A1. Captured with NEOSCENE with Maintain Source Frame Format checked. When I import into CS3 the clip's Frame Rate is being displayed as 29.97fps.
Does anyone know why this is happening?

Scott Gold · June 1st, 2009, 11:19 AM

Come on folks....no takers? I tried capturing again but with the Convert to 24p(NTSC only) button checked and it shows as 23.967fps in Premiere CS3. What I'm wondering is why doesn't it say 23.967fps in Premiere CS3 when captured with the Maintain source frame format button checked???

Any help would be greatly apprecieated.

Robert Young · June 1st, 2009, 02:38 PM

If I am not mistaken, Canon 24F is 24fps embedded in a 30fps data stream.
To get true 24fps on your PPro timeline you need to remove the pull-down (extra frames) as part of the CF convert to avi.

Scott Gold · June 1st, 2009, 02:45 PM

Removing the pull down??? Can I just use the Convert to 24p(NTSC only) option when capturing in NeoScene?

Robert Young · June 1st, 2009, 02:54 PM

I'm not familiar with NeoScene, but in Prospect HD- HD Link, in the prefs dialog box, there is a section "Frame Rate Change (Advanced)" with a check off box for "Remove 3-2 Pulldown"
In Neo Scene, "Convert to 24p" may perform the same function.

Jack Walker · June 1st, 2009, 03:22 PM

Read this whole thread to be confused, or read just the last post for clarification of Canon 24F:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-...-23-98fps.html

Jay Bloomfield · June 1st, 2009, 03:44 PM

Video frame rates confusing? It wouldn't be video, if it wasn't confusing. And we wouldn't need no stinkin' message boards, to paraphrase Mel Brooks. Let me take me shot at it:

First, 24p is from NTSC land, so, no matter what video camera is shooting it, it's almost always 23.967 fps. But most video cameras shoot at a fixed frame rate, either 29.97 fps (NTSC) or 25 fps (PAL). The new consumer Canon HV40 supposedly has a "native" 24p mode, so it is not impossible to do so. It's all about saving money on the camera design. And you save money by having a fixed frame rate.

So basically what you have is 23.967 fps embedded in a 29.97 fps stream. 24F has pulldown flags, so NLEs and media players can read the flags and automatically know which frames to utilize to get 23.967 fps. Most consumer camcorders that record 24p have it embedded in a 60i stream with no pulldown flags. In that case, the NLE (or other video software) has to guess the cadence of progressive and interlaced frames, in order to produce 23.967 fps.

Scott Gold · June 3rd, 2009, 02:01 PM

Jack and Jay, your responses really helped me a lot! This is starting to make sense now.
So when NeoScene is in recording in "Maintain Source Frame Format" mode it is capturing the whole 29.97fps stream from the XH-A1 and disregarding the 23.967fps flags or CS3 doesn't understand them??? Is that right?

So, if I capture 24f footage in NeoScene in "Convert to 24p(NTSC only)" mode then I'm really getting true 23.967fps, not 29.97fps with 23.967 flags.

I'm wondering how this would effect burning 24p DVD's in encore. I was under the impression DVD's needed a 29.97fps source and then you add flags so the DVD player can show 24P footage.

May 30th, 2009, 11:43 AM	#1
Scott Gold Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 194	24f showing as 29.97 in CS3???? Shot footage in 24f 1080 HDV on a XH-A1. Captured with NEOSCENE with Maintain Source Frame Format checked. When I import into CS3 the clip's Frame Rate is being displayed as 29.97fps. Does anyone know why this is happening? __________________ www.scott-gold.com

June 1st, 2009, 11:19 AM	#2
Scott Gold Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 194	Come on folks....no takers? I tried capturing again but with the Convert to 24p(NTSC only) button checked and it shows as 23.967fps in Premiere CS3. What I'm wondering is why doesn't it say 23.967fps in Premiere CS3 when captured with the Maintain source frame format button checked??? Any help would be greatly apprecieated. __________________ www.scott-gold.com

June 1st, 2009, 02:38 PM	#3
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	If I am not mistaken, Canon 24F is 24fps embedded in a 30fps data stream. To get true 24fps on your PPro timeline you need to remove the pull-down (extra frames) as part of the CF convert to avi. __________________ Bob

June 1st, 2009, 02:45 PM	#4
Scott Gold Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 194	Removing the pull down??? Can I just use the Convert to 24p(NTSC only) option when capturing in NeoScene? __________________ www.scott-gold.com

June 1st, 2009, 02:54 PM	#5
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I'm not familiar with NeoScene, but in Prospect HD- HD Link, in the prefs dialog box, there is a section "Frame Rate Change (Advanced)" with a check off box for "Remove 3-2 Pulldown" In Neo Scene, "Convert to 24p" may perform the same function. __________________ Bob

June 1st, 2009, 03:22 PM	#6
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Read this whole thread to be confused, or read just the last post for clarification of Canon 24F: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-xh-...-23-98fps.html

June 1st, 2009, 03:44 PM	#7
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	Video frame rates confusing? It wouldn't be video, if it wasn't confusing. And we wouldn't need no stinkin' message boards, to paraphrase Mel Brooks. Let me take me shot at it: First, 24p is from NTSC land, so, no matter what video camera is shooting it, it's almost always 23.967 fps. But most video cameras shoot at a fixed frame rate, either 29.97 fps (NTSC) or 25 fps (PAL). The new consumer Canon HV40 supposedly has a "native" 24p mode, so it is not impossible to do so. It's all about saving money on the camera design. And you save money by having a fixed frame rate. So basically what you have is 23.967 fps embedded in a 29.97 fps stream. 24F has pulldown flags, so NLEs and media players can read the flags and automatically know which frames to utilize to get 23.967 fps. Most consumer camcorders that record 24p have it embedded in a 60i stream with no pulldown flags. In that case, the NLE (or other video software) has to guess the cadence of progressive and interlaced frames, in order to produce 23.967 fps.

June 3rd, 2009, 02:01 PM	#8
Scott Gold Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 194	Jack and Jay, your responses really helped me a lot! This is starting to make sense now. So when NeoScene is in recording in "Maintain Source Frame Format" mode it is capturing the whole 29.97fps stream from the XH-A1 and disregarding the 23.967fps flags or CS3 doesn't understand them??? Is that right? So, if I capture 24f footage in NeoScene in "Convert to 24p(NTSC only)" mode then I'm really getting true 23.967fps, not 29.97fps with 23.967 flags. I'm wondering how this would effect burning 24p DVD's in encore. I was under the impression DVD's needed a 29.97fps source and then you add flags so the DVD player can show 24P footage. __________________ www.scott-gold.com