Cineform feedback after Adobe CS4.1 Update

Bruce Gruber · May 30th, 2009, 05:57 AM

The adobe update really stinks.. Now CF plays choppy I mean really choppy starts and stops starts stops, you cant even tell if it’s the clip or the application so you do not know until you burn your disc if something is wrong with a clip!!!

I am exporting a 18 min clip and its telling me its going to take 3 hours and 18min. I think that is an improvement?

Everyting from CF seems to be working I am trying the transitions now..

Oh it seems that Adobe told PPCS4 to use more memory I am see about 5% usage out of 8g when before it was 2.5 to 3. I am not seeing any higher CPU usage

Simon Zimmer · May 30th, 2009, 07:05 AM

Hello,

I installed the latest Adobe updates and the latest cineform build for Prospect Hd and now my PPCS3 files crash everytime I try to render them. :(((((((

Now I am going to open the PPCS3 project and try it in PPCS4. Maybe it will work better now. I wish the RT engine was available.

Simon

Glenn Babcock · May 30th, 2009, 07:33 AM

I've been having lots of crashes with PPCS4 and slow encoding, but I just found something interesting. A new project with old content imported is running much better!

I was trying to encode an HDV project to CF AVI but was getting VERY slow encoding. A 2.5 hour project was going to take an estimated 86+ hours (35x)! Even encoding it directly to MPEG2 took 50 hours (20x, and the quality was terrible!).

I tried a number of things before stumbling onto something. I created a new PPCS4 project with some of the same CF sources as the problem project, and on a whim I tried importing select timelines from the original. When I started encoding the first one to CF AVI, about 1 hour of HDV, I was shocked to see the estimate: under 10 hours! This is consistent with what David Newman said he was getting, about 10x.

So now I need to find out what's causing the original project to run SO slow so I can avoid this in the future. Maybe it's a cache issue?

Glenn

Simon Zimmer · May 30th, 2009, 08:25 AM

My test failed.

I opened up an old project from PPCS3 in PPCS4 and rendered it. No crashes which surprised me but the preview monitor screwed up the video. It was scaled all wrong. :(((

Back to CS3. I can't render but at least I can still edit until these problems get fixed soon.

Sighhhh!

Simon

Matt Vanecek · May 30th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Gruber

The adobe update really stinks.. Now CF plays choppy I mean really choppy starts and stops starts stops

One thing to check is to make sure you have the latest video card drivers for your video card. I noticed the same thing, but updated my video card drivers and everything smoothed out the way it had been.

Thanks,
Matt

Andy Urtusuastegui · May 30th, 2009, 12:45 PM

One more thing. When I export Cineform AVI files, they are being de-interlaced eventhough I am specifying Upper Field first.

David Newman · May 30th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Urtusuastegui

One more thing. When I export Cineform AVI files, they are being de-interlaced eventhough I am specifying Upper Field first.

Adobe must be an Adobe thing as there is no deinterlacer in our export code -- we just compress the frames we are given.

Leo Baker · May 30th, 2009, 03:41 PM

Hello,

I am in After Effects after the 4.1 update on my 64bit Vista business computer, when I render out Cineform AVI's from the latest build of Cineform

ProspectHDv403b212-090529

I get a crash here is the link to my screengrab of the Crash

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3467/cs4crashcf.jpg

David Newman · May 30th, 2009, 03:57 PM

That one doesn't look like a CineForm crash, ae.blitpipe is Adobe's.

Hint: Alt + Prt Scr grabs the active window, not the whole screen.

Leo Baker · May 30th, 2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

That one doesn't look like a CineForm crash, ae.blitpipe is Adobe's.

Hint: Alt + Prt Scr grabs the active window, not the whole screen.

Hi David,

In the AE log it said Crash occured while invoking plugin Key Light 2.1.

Leo Baker · May 30th, 2009, 04:20 PM

Hello,

I bring in a Cineform high quality AVI file 48khz 16bit stereo file 1280x720 25p into a DV PAL 48khz DV project in Premeire Pro 4.1 latest update.

The video does not play back properly stops, and the audio just repeats like 1 sec of audio again and again. No audio waveform for that file shows as well.

David Newman · May 30th, 2009, 10:25 PM

Submit bug reports to both CineForm and Adobe, while we will likely have to fix these issues, Adobe created this mess.

Matt Vanecek · May 30th, 2009, 11:41 PM

Well, CS4 4.1 + CFHD 4.0.3-212, still getting the ImporterProcessServer crash on longer videos. I think anything that takes 2 hours or more to encode will crash, but I haven't tested that yet. Fixing to kick off another test and go to bed, so I'll post results.

Sure would be nice to actually be able to use CFHD AVIs....

Thanks,
Matt

Robert Young · May 31st, 2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Urtusuastegui

Update to the stuttering playback issue.

I took the clip that was playing back poorly and and did two Cineform exports:
Export with I frames only, Export with I&P frames.

The I frame only plays back bad, while the I&P frame export plays very good.

Good catch Andy. I did the same thing with a 2.5 min 1080x1920 segment and the I&P render was much more "normal" looking than the I only render when previewed in Premiere. When played in WMP, even better. It was approaching what I used to get with CS3 and PHD3
A clue!!
Thanks

Dave Nuttall · May 31st, 2009, 05:26 AM

Until I got CS4.1 and NeoHD 4.0.x, I was exporting from Adobe to the custom MS AVI before authoring to DVD and total export time was running around 150% of the actual length of the clips.

Now with NeoHD 4.0.x and CS4.1, I see a new (to me) export option which is Cineform AVI. A project that requires 90-100 minutes to export a 65 minute project now estimates to require almost 8 HOURS.

I haven't "invested" yet to see if there are noticeably better results, but it would be nice to know if that is about what should be expected for time (comparatively speaking) and more important is there a tangible (or visual) value-added by exporting to Cineform AVI from CS4.1? The first thing I noticed is that it doesn't default to the Cineform codec.

My machine is an I7/920 not overclocked with 6GB RAM, 10K boot/software drive and a pair of 7200RPM SATA drives project data on one, output to the other. Vista 64-bit

I have a 9-hour edited singing convention to release to the 30+ performers and if I need a week (72 hrs processing time - LOL) to just export, I'd like to be able to tell them it will be worth the wait!

Anyone with insights to share?
TIA.
Dave Nuttall
San Antonio, TX

May 30th, 2009, 05:57 AM	#16
Bruce Gruber Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 221	Build 212 The adobe update really stinks.. Now CF plays choppy I mean really choppy starts and stops starts stops, you cant even tell if it’s the clip or the application so you do not know until you burn your disc if something is wrong with a clip!!! I am exporting a 18 min clip and its telling me its going to take 3 hours and 18min. I think that is an improvement? Everyting from CF seems to be working I am trying the transitions now.. Oh it seems that Adobe told PPCS4 to use more memory I am see about 5% usage out of 8g when before it was 2.5 to 3. I am not seeing any higher CPU usage

May 30th, 2009, 12:45 PM	#21
Andy Urtusuastegui Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Foothill Ranch, CA Posts: 166	212 and cs4.1 One more thing. When I export Cineform AVI files, they are being de-interlaced eventhough I am specifying Upper Field first.

May 30th, 2009, 03:41 PM	#23
Leo Baker Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: London Posts: 147	After Effects Crash rendering out CF AVI's Hello, I am in After Effects after the 4.1 update on my 64bit Vista business computer, when I render out Cineform AVI's from the latest build of Cineform ProspectHDv403b212-090529 I get a crash here is the link to my screengrab of the Crash http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3467/cs4crashcf.jpg

May 30th, 2009, 03:57 PM	#24
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	That one doesn't look like a CineForm crash, ae.blitpipe is Adobe's. Hint: Alt + Prt Scr grabs the active window, not the whole screen. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 30th, 2009, 04:20 PM	#26
Leo Baker Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: London Posts: 147	Cant play Cineform video or Audio in a DV PAL Premeire Pro project Hello, I bring in a Cineform high quality AVI file 48khz 16bit stereo file 1280x720 25p into a DV PAL 48khz DV project in Premeire Pro 4.1 latest update. The video does not play back properly stops, and the audio just repeats like 1 sec of audio again and again. No audio waveform for that file shows as well.

May 30th, 2009, 07:05 AM	#17
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	Hello, I installed the latest Adobe updates and the latest cineform build for Prospect Hd and now my PPCS3 files crash everytime I try to render them. :((((((( Now I am going to open the PPCS3 project and try it in PPCS4. Maybe it will work better now. I wish the RT engine was available. Simon

May 30th, 2009, 07:33 AM	#18
Glenn Babcock Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 64	I've been having lots of crashes with PPCS4 and slow encoding, but I just found something interesting. A new project with old content imported is running much better! I was trying to encode an HDV project to CF AVI but was getting VERY slow encoding. A 2.5 hour project was going to take an estimated 86+ hours (35x)! Even encoding it directly to MPEG2 took 50 hours (20x, and the quality was terrible!). I tried a number of things before stumbling onto something. I created a new PPCS4 project with some of the same CF sources as the problem project, and on a whim I tried importing select timelines from the original. When I started encoding the first one to CF AVI, about 1 hour of HDV, I was shocked to see the estimate: under 10 hours! This is consistent with what David Newman said he was getting, about 10x. So now I need to find out what's causing the original project to run SO slow so I can avoid this in the future. Maybe it's a cache issue? Glenn

May 30th, 2009, 08:25 AM	#19
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	My test failed. I opened up an old project from PPCS3 in PPCS4 and rendered it. No crashes which surprised me but the preview monitor screwed up the video. It was scaled all wrong. :((( Back to CS3. I can't render but at least I can still edit until these problems get fixed soon. Sighhhh! Simon

May 30th, 2009, 10:25 PM	#27
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Submit bug reports to both CineForm and Adobe, while we will likely have to fix these issues, Adobe created this mess. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 30th, 2009, 11:41 PM	#28
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	Still get ImporterProcessServer crash Well, CS4 4.1 + CFHD 4.0.3-212, still getting the ImporterProcessServer crash on longer videos. I think anything that takes 2 hours or more to encode will crash, but I haven't tested that yet. Fixing to kick off another test and go to bed, so I'll post results. Sure would be nice to actually be able to use CFHD AVIs.... Thanks, Matt

May 31st, 2009, 05:26 AM	#30
Dave Nuttall Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 30	Long Cineform AVI export vs. custom MS AVI w/Cineform codec Until I got CS4.1 and NeoHD 4.0.x, I was exporting from Adobe to the custom MS AVI before authoring to DVD and total export time was running around 150% of the actual length of the clips. Now with NeoHD 4.0.x and CS4.1, I see a new (to me) export option which is Cineform AVI. A project that requires 90-100 minutes to export a 65 minute project now estimates to require almost 8 HOURS. I haven't "invested" yet to see if there are noticeably better results, but it would be nice to know if that is about what should be expected for time (comparatively speaking) and more important is there a tangible (or visual) value-added by exporting to Cineform AVI from CS4.1? The first thing I noticed is that it doesn't default to the Cineform codec. My machine is an I7/920 not overclocked with 6GB RAM, 10K boot/software drive and a pair of 7200RPM SATA drives project data on one, output to the other. Vista 64-bit I have a 9-hour edited singing convention to release to the 30+ performers and if I need a week (72 hrs processing time - LOL) to just export, I'd like to be able to tell them it will be worth the wait! Anyone with insights to share? TIA. Dave Nuttall San Antonio, TX