NEOScene footage stuttery in Sony Vegas 8 at DVinfo.net

Michael Liebergot · April 22nd, 2009, 08:14 AM

I noticed that when I have been doing tests using transcoded HDV files shot from my Sony FX1's in Sony Vegas 8, that the HDV m2t files seem to play smoother on my timeline than the new NeoScene AVI file. This is at the "Best" Preview setting with no effects on the clips. I can play the footage smoothly at the "Preview" setting.

But was curious as to why the HDV footage would be much smoother.

I am editing on a dual boot, 2.66 QUAD Core MacPro via Bootcamp and WIN XP. teh footage was tested on a separate internal 7200 rpm Hitachi and external 7200 rpm MAXTOR (via ESATA) drives.

I encoded them with several tests, ranging form the normal "Match Aspect" method to "Deinterlace" and "24P".

When I used the "Match Aspect" method I placed the footage on a HDV 1440 x 1080 with all settings as it.

For Deinterlace, I used the HDV template, but changed the pulldown to "None Progressive"

For the "24P" method I used the 24P 1440 x 1080 preset as is.

Overall the 24P seemed to play the smoothest, with about the same sluggish (slightly stuttery) results using the standard HDV and tweaked Progressive settings.

Of course preview was best using the "Preview" setting on Vegas, but I thought that the "Best" preview would be much smoother, especially since no effects were applied to any clips. I especially thought that the footage would be smoother than the pure HDV footage. The footage was tested on both an independent Hitachi 7200 rpm internal drive and 7200 MAXTOR drive via ESATA card.

Any thoughts from the crew?

Chris Barcellos · April 22nd, 2009, 10:50 AM

My understanding is that Vegas preview is all about the processor. It does not utilize video card in the render process. So memory and processor speed will make a difference. This is one aspect of Vegas that has never been satisfactory. Perhaps it is also why Vegas is more stable.

In any event, I have a Quad Core. Assuming I set the project properties to the same as the footage I am bringing in, I can get a pretty clean preview in Best mode. When the project properties are different, this seems to sometimes create a problem and slow down preview. Adding filters and color correcting slows down preview.

Having used Vegas now for 3 years or so, I have learned to preview in draft during the editing process, and either render and preview, or set preview to best, and step one frame at a time to assure I am getting image quality I want.

I was amazed when 8 came out how well in previewed HDV. This was new for 8, and I began questing my decision to edit in Cineform's intermediate file structure. Ultimately though, I believe editing and rendering of edited and color corrected footage is still better with Cineform codec. As a bonus, NeoScene excels at correcting the issues with footage from my Canon 5D.

Michael Liebergot · April 22nd, 2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

My understanding is that Vegas preview is all about the processor. It does not utilize video card in the render process. So memory and processor speed will make a difference. This is one aspect of Vegas that has never been satisfactory. Perhaps it is also why Vegas is more stable.

In any event, I have a Quad Core. Assuming I set the project properties to the same as the footage I am bringing in, I can get a pretty clean preview in Best mode. When the project properties are different, this seems to sometimes create a problem and slow down preview. Adding filters and color correcting slows down preview.

Having used Vegas now for 3 years or so, I have learned to preview in draft during the editing process, and either render and preview, or set preview to best, and step one frame at a time to assure I am getting image quality I want.

I was amazed when 8 came out how well in previewed HDV. This was new for 8, and I began questing my decision to edit in Cineform's intermediate file structure. Ultimately though, I believe editing and rendering of edited and color corrected footage is still better with Cineform codec. As a bonus, NeoScene excels at correcting the issues with footage from my Canon 5D.

Chris thanks for the info.

A quick note...
Is the proper Vegas project setup for "Matched Aspect" Cineform footage HDV 1440 x 1080 60i? I thought that a mismatch project properties would cause some stuttering, but the Cineform Matched footage seems to be 1440 x 1080 and not 1920 x 1080.

I have been using Vegas for over 6 years now (back to version 3) and am well aware of Vegas' reliance on processor power first and foremost, and of course hard disk speed for running smoothly. RAM for the most part is valuable for RAM previews but seems to do little else in regards to actual performance in the Vegas workspace.

But I found it unusual that the HVD footage would play much smoother than the Cineform file. After all, since the Cineform footage is iframe based and HDV GOP based shouldn't the iframe Cineform footage be less processor intensive?

Khanh Nguyen · April 24th, 2009, 12:41 PM

Vegas uses single core for preview by default. You can enable multi-core preview and be able to have full frame/best preview with 2 HD tracks or cross fade transitions etc on a good quad-core machine.

I believe that the i7 machine will be able to preview Canon5Dmk2 mov file at max fps using a single core. I don't have a i7 cpu so I can't test personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

My understanding is that Vegas preview is all about the processor. It does not utilize video card in the render process. So memory and processor speed will make a difference. This is one aspect of Vegas that has never been satisfactory. Perhaps it is also why Vegas is more stable.

In any event, I have a Quad Core. Assuming I set the project properties to the same as the footage I am bringing in, I can get a pretty clean preview in Best mode. When the project properties are different, this seems to sometimes create a problem and slow down preview. Adding filters and color correcting slows down preview.

Having used Vegas now for 3 years or so, I have learned to preview in draft during the editing process, and either render and preview, or set preview to best, and step one frame at a time to assure I am getting image quality I want.

I was amazed when 8 came out how well in previewed HDV. This was new for 8, and I began questing my decision to edit in Cineform's intermediate file structure. Ultimately though, I believe editing and rendering of edited and color corrected footage is still better with Cineform codec. As a bonus, NeoScene excels at correcting the issues with footage from my Canon 5D.

Jon McGuffin · April 25th, 2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khanh Nguyen

Vegas uses single core for preview by default. You can enable multi-core preview and be able to have full frame/best preview with 2 HD tracks or cross fade transitions etc on a good quad-core machine.

Khanh,

Can you share with us where you 'enable' multicore preview?

Khanh Nguyen · April 26th, 2009, 06:32 AM

Hold down the shift key when you click on Preference (under Option menu). You'll see a new tap called "internal". In there, you can change all the internal setting of Vegas.

I just tested the multi-core preview rendering on another machine (E8200 duo core) and I got worse performance than a single core (I can see the other core being used with the setting). I don't know what's going on. Maybe it works for some computer but not others. Give it a try and see if you get benefit.

Since there a hundreds of internal settings you can change. I use the "show only internal setting contains" box at the bottom to narrow down my search.

April 22nd, 2009, 08:14 AM	#1
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	NEOScene footage stuttery in Sony Vegas 8 I noticed that when I have been doing tests using transcoded HDV files shot from my Sony FX1's in Sony Vegas 8, that the HDV m2t files seem to play smoother on my timeline than the new NeoScene AVI file. This is at the "Best" Preview setting with no effects on the clips. I can play the footage smoothly at the "Preview" setting. But was curious as to why the HDV footage would be much smoother. I am editing on a dual boot, 2.66 QUAD Core MacPro via Bootcamp and WIN XP. teh footage was tested on a separate internal 7200 rpm Hitachi and external 7200 rpm MAXTOR (via ESATA) drives. I encoded them with several tests, ranging form the normal "Match Aspect" method to "Deinterlace" and "24P". When I used the "Match Aspect" method I placed the footage on a HDV 1440 x 1080 with all settings as it. For Deinterlace, I used the HDV template, but changed the pulldown to "None Progressive" For the "24P" method I used the 24P 1440 x 1080 preset as is. Overall the 24P seemed to play the smoothest, with about the same sluggish (slightly stuttery) results using the standard HDV and tweaked Progressive settings. Of course preview was best using the "Preview" setting on Vegas, but I thought that the "Best" preview would be much smoother, especially since no effects were applied to any clips. I especially thought that the footage would be smoother than the pure HDV footage. The footage was tested on both an independent Hitachi 7200 rpm internal drive and 7200 MAXTOR drive via ESATA card. Any thoughts from the crew? __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

April 22nd, 2009, 10:50 AM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	My understanding is that Vegas preview is all about the processor. It does not utilize video card in the render process. So memory and processor speed will make a difference. This is one aspect of Vegas that has never been satisfactory. Perhaps it is also why Vegas is more stable. In any event, I have a Quad Core. Assuming I set the project properties to the same as the footage I am bringing in, I can get a pretty clean preview in Best mode. When the project properties are different, this seems to sometimes create a problem and slow down preview. Adding filters and color correcting slows down preview. Having used Vegas now for 3 years or so, I have learned to preview in draft during the editing process, and either render and preview, or set preview to best, and step one frame at a time to assure I am getting image quality I want. I was amazed when 8 came out how well in previewed HDV. This was new for 8, and I began questing my decision to edit in Cineform's intermediate file structure. Ultimately though, I believe editing and rendering of edited and color corrected footage is still better with Cineform codec. As a bonus, NeoScene excels at correcting the issues with footage from my Canon 5D. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 26th, 2009, 06:32 AM	#6
Khanh Nguyen New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA USA Posts: 7	Hold down the shift key when you click on Preference (under Option menu). You'll see a new tap called "internal". In there, you can change all the internal setting of Vegas. I just tested the multi-core preview rendering on another machine (E8200 duo core) and I got worse performance than a single core (I can see the other core being used with the setting). I don't know what's going on. Maybe it works for some computer but not others. Give it a try and see if you get benefit. Since there a hundreds of internal settings you can change. I use the "show only internal setting contains" box at the bottom to narrow down my search.