Aspect HD questions -- all versions

[Josef Crow]

Question for David Newman:

The HD10 (and all digital camcorders at present) has a very limited dynamic range (not to mention the problems with focus, aperature, etc with the HD10). So...

Could Aspect be used to edit a digital intermediate from film? And if so....

1. How would one transfer from film to Cineform codec? Or can you transfer from 2K to Cineform?

2. What color depth does Aspect use with Premiere? (8 bit? 10 bit? 10 bit logrhythmic?)

3. Am i out of my mind?

[David Newman]

No you are not out of your mind. Maybe we at CineForm are, as we heading in the direction your questions are leading. The current version of Aspect HD and the first edition of Aspect HD for Premiere Pro (due out next week), is still targeted for accelerating 720p HD at 30fps. Although any source can be used, like we have some Varicam users experimenting with Aspect HD, the direct support for accelerating higher resolutions with multiple frame rates will be for the future. Sorry I can't provide more details.

Note: the current release of the CFHD codec will support 2k resolutions, so After Effects can be used if you wish for DI work.

[Josef Crow]

Happy you're moving in that direction, David.

Since gearing up for a film i want to shoot next fall, i've been learning as much as i can about, well, as much as i can. Now that i've invested in an HD10u, DP-Xeon PC and Cineform Aspect, i'm reconsidering the best way to go with the production. I would still very much like to edit this thing myself (or a rough cut), but am considering acquiring images with (ghast) film.

So I'm wondering what my options are (or will be by next fall) and have too many questions.... (sorry)

1. Isn't it possible now to edit at 24p using Premiere? (okay, it won't do the pulldown thing). If so, how soon do you think Aspect will support 720p WITH 24p (which would essentially allow you to edit Varicam on a PC)?

2. 2K editing seems to work with 10 bit color depth and i'm wondering what does Aspect/Premiere use? What's the deal with 10 bit logrhythmic? I'm worried that all the benefits of 2K or 720 with resolution are lost with lack of color depth, etc.

3. How does editing with wavelet compression (Carlsbad) compare with uncompressed 2k?

thanks

[David Newman]

Lots of good questions but feel I shouldn't publicly answer them, other than by next fall we have all the tools, quality and performance you will need. :)

[Les Dit]

The biggest limitation for doing color grading with low end edit tools is that nagging bit depth problem. Premiere has been able to do the 2K res for many years now. That was never the issue.
So if you can stand non real time playback of full res images, Vegas or Premiere or whatever will work. You can always do the color grade in proxy resolution and then re-render the whole project at full res when you have finished timing the movie.
So if your source is 8bit JVC HD10 , you already have what you need out there.
If you want 2K 10 bit film scans for under $10K per 80 min, contact me for the details.
I have a way you can color grade with Premiere and I apply the project to the 10 bit image files. Poor mans DI !
-Les

[Ben Buie]

You AspectHD experts out there:

We are having a weird problem with Aspect HD 1.1.

We have an AMD Athlon XP 2000 machine w/ 1GB of memory and a dedicated 80 GB 7,200 RPM HD w/ an 8 MB Buffer. We are running XP Pro and Premiere 6.5.

When we use HDLink to convert an .m2t file into an avi, the conversion seems to work but the AVI comes out all weird (almost like a TV with the V-hold messed up).

Finally we got it to work by selecting "interlaced" mode in HDLink prefs and doing the conversion that way. That worked, but I'm not clear on what "interlaced" means in this context. Also, there are places in the video that have weird artifacts after the conversion, enough so that the video isn't really usable.

Anyone know any reason the conversion using the default setting (progressive) wouldn't work properly?

Ben

[David Newman]

Very simple. There is a patch/upgrade available for Athlon users under Premiere 6.5. This patch is unneccesary for Aspect HD 2.0 under Premiere Pro. Contact CineForm tech support to get the patch for you Althon system.

In the meantime using the interlaced mode will not cause any issues. Interlaced compression is optimized for interlaced formats like 1080i, however it will encode progressive material with a small data-rate overhead (about 10%.) The quality will be the same as the progressive encoding mode.

[Ken Hodson]

I have read the minimum and recommended and minimum system requirements for AspectHD, but I have a few questions.

Being that the software is optimized for a P4 will it run on a Athlon XP? If so do you need to run dual channel memory on the AMD platform? I ask this because dual channel ram or single channel on the socket A platform have little performance increase unlike the P4 which receives a great boost from dual channel. What kind of performance hit will an Athlon XP take in comparisson to a similar rated P4?

What fsb speed is minimum for a P4? Will the program work with a 533fsb, or is 800fsb required?

Thanks
Ken

[David Newman]

Ken, these are good questions. At this very moment Aspect HD is not Althon XP compatible, an earily version was (Aspect HD 2.0) and our next release will restore that Althon XP compatibility. We have full compatibility with later series AMD CPU like the FX and Opteron.

For performance this is the order of system perference:
1) Dual Opteron
2) P4 800MB/s FSB and dual channel DDR
3) Dual Xeon 533MB/s RDRAM
4) Single Opteron or FX or P4 533MB/s DC-DDR or RDRAM
5) Althon XP.

The memory speeds of the P4s make them shine. We have seen a P4 mix up to 5 channels of 720p30, yet the best Althon XP would be doing 2 or 3 channels. You might not ever use 5 channels of video yet you may want to use multiple filters like color correction and overlays with 2 or 3 video layers so the perfromance comes in handy. Memory speed is so important with HD as the frame is bigger than the external CPU cache, so when an Althon might be able to out compute a P4, it can't as it is being starved on data.

[Andrew Lock]

David,

Further to the questions asked, I am thinking about putting together my own system to use Aspect HD - Boxx technologies seem to be reccommended but they are out of my price range and I am happy to build my own. My question is, what reccommendations do you have for motherboard and chipset for use with AspectHD? Are there any known compatibility issues with certain m'boards or chipsets? I am thinking of building a dual Opteron system.

Thanks

Andrew

[David Newman]

For a dual Opteron go with IWILL motherboards rather those from Tyan. Both work fine with Aspect HD, yet the Tyan motherboard seems to have problem outputting HD to the AGP card under Media Player (I have spoken to Tyan about the fact that it uses more CPU than it should.) With a dual Opteron make sure you add RAM to both CPUs (best speed that way.)

For P4 motherboards there are no compatibility issues. We have found the Intel chipsets 865 (good) and 875 (best) to provide excellent performance. I also think the 875's integrates SATA RAID 0 is about the fastest without purchasing a PCI-X motherboard.

For the price performance reasons we have been recommending the P4, yet for future expansion to HDSDI (i.e. Prospect HD) a dual Opteron (248s or greater) with PCI-X is the way to go.

[Ken Hodson]

David one more question please.
Continuing allong this line, how does system performance vary when using the codec outside of PPro? Say in After Effects?
Does the codec still demand high memory bandwidth for high performance or is it less intensive being that it is not RT prieview?
Would the Athlon XP perform closer to a P4? Or does the system pecking order for AspectHD hold true in other apps as well?
Thanks
Ken

[David Newman]

When using After Effects to still helps to have a fast system, multiple CPU etc. We don't accelerate After Effects but with any HD processing memory speed is a significant factor. However I expect a fast Athlon XP will perform in a similar way to a fast P4.

[Dwight Flynn]

I have an athlon64 (1 gb 400ddr), will the current Aspect HD work with this system.

Thanks

[David Newman]

<<<-- Originally posted by Dwight Flynn : I have an athlon64 (1 gb 400ddr), will the current Aspect HD work with this system. -->>>

Yes it will work well.