AVC-intra

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Hello David

Will the new Prospect HD 4K support the Panasonic AVC-intra codec?

Regards
Mikael
Sweden

[David Newman]

Possibly, I haven't seen any samples yet.

[Manuel Lopez]

Samples here:

HPX300-AVCI100.zip - FileFactory

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Thanks David for your reply:-)

I think this is gona be the major breakthrough mum in the near future, have a look at this :
Review of Panasonic HPX 301 e By Philip Bloom On ExposureRoom with Philip Bloom.

This is so important for us in the doc and broadcast business, I will work with this baby in two moth from now in a broadcast environment and I just love your Prospect codec, can't live without it.

Please make sure your on this train David, please make sure your on this:-)

Best Regards
Mikael
Sweden

[Michael Wisniewski]

Same here, I'm eagerly awaiting Cineform's update for this format. My bosses already have this camera in their sights, and they only want to use AVC Intra 100.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

David

I Found this nice info from your blog, does it mean that CineForm supports AVC-Intra now?

Best Regards
Mikael Bergstrom

________________________________

The quick answer is YES, but let’s dive a bit deeper….

Algorithm: First of all, the AVC algorithm is similar to MPEG4, and both use DCT processing as does the original MPEG 2 spec that preceded them. AVC does include 10-bit recording capability for those camera and DDR manufacturers that choose to use extended precision. “Intra” is simply the I-frame version of the otherwise long-GOP implementation of AVC. As of this writing, newer consumer HD cameras from Sony and Panasonic are using highly compressed AVC long-GOP recording. Panasonic has also chosen to use AVC Intra for their Professional cameras and decks.

Qualitative Quality: At this point it is worth noting that the AVC Intra algorithm chosen by Panasonic has similarities to the MPEG 4 Intra algorithm used by Sony in HDCam SR. But Panasonic has chosen a bitrate cap on AVC Intra at 100 Mbps, whereas HDCam SR offers two bitrate modes of 440Mbps and 880Mbps. We haven’t yet performed a visual quality analysis of AVC Intra, but we expect that at 100Mbps the visual fidelity of AVC Intra will be noticeably lower than HDCam SR. In April 2007 CineForm performed a visual quality analysis of CineForm 444 versus HDCam SR. The results of that test show that CineForm compression is superior to that of the respected HDCam SR format. It follows that given the relatively low bitrate of AVC Intra that CineForm will maintain a significant quality advantage over AVC Intra both for original recording as well as for a multi-generation post workflow.

Post-Production Performance: AVC (and MPEG 4) use an entropy coding algorithm known as “arithmetic coding”. (Entropy coding removes redundancy from the bitstream after transform processing, separate from the visual redundancy exposed by the DCT). Arithmetic coding is more efficient (by about 10% to 20%) in the size of recorded files than “Huffman coding” that was used in earlier JPEG and MPEG 2 algorithms. The resulting smaller bitstreams are beneficial when recording to tape or flash-based media as you will gain an extra 10% - 20% more material recorded for a given media size.

But there is a cost to the modest extra efficiency in file size. Specifically, arithmetic coding is extremely inefficient to encode and decode on CPUs, so the algorithms are quite slow. In a camera or DDR usually a hardware encoder is used, so CPU inefficiency is never exposed. But in a post environment with software decoders, the inefficiency of arithmetic coding becomes very visible.

As many are aware, CineForm compression uses a full-frame Wavelet for compression to avoid block artifacts often present in DCT-based algorithms. Further, CineForm avoids using arithmetic coding because of its inefficient CPU performance. The result is that CineForm compression a large performance advantage in addition to its visual quality advantage. In a post environment CineForm compression will exceed the encode/decode performance of AVC Intra algorithms by 3X-4X. That means that 3 or 4 CineForm streams can be decoded using the same CPU that is decoding one AVC Intra stream.

Bottom Line: As a result of higher CineForm visual fidelity and much higher performance in post, CineForm recommends that you convert AVC (Intra) streams into Cineform Intermediate for your post-production workflow.

[David Newman]

That was posted before AVC-Intra was in the wild, it turns out you need different AVC components than we are currently shipping, but we do have emails out for licensing the required components.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Thanks David

So it is on the drawing board, do you think that it will be ready in two months or so?

Regards
Mikael

[David Newman]

Well, it is a licensing issue, if the costs a balance the requests for AVC-Intra then likely sooner. However if AVC-Intra decoder vendors price themselves out for the market then we will not support it directly, and have to do workarounds like we did for DVCPRO-HD.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Okay Thanks David

Let's hope it is moving consumer roads. Believe that Panasonic will lose customers if no one can edit with AVC-Intra, for what is the point of buying a camera that no one can use.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

David, I know you busy

I am a little desperate and I wondering how I should do?

I will start shoot an important film in less than a month and must be sure that I can use my files when I get back to editing.

Because CineForm does not support AVC-Intra 100 yet, I wonder if this senarium could serve as a temporary solution without losing my 10Bit and the quality of my material.

1. Connect my HPX301 by the SDI out to a DeckLink HD Extreme card.

2. I Use the HDLink to record the signal into a 4.2.2 color space in a CineForm file format in 1920 x 1080 25p

My question to you, will I lose a lot to do it this way or should I use some other format from the start in the camera?

Best Regards
Mikael
Sweden

[David Newman]

That is the best way, with no quality issues.

[Mikael Bergstrom]

Hello David

Any update on the AvC-Intra 100/50 codec support?

Regards
Mikael

[Mikael Bergstrom]

David

Is there any news on the support for AVC-Intra, need it badly!!!

I'm waiting for CS5 now and so are you I guess:-) (Cineform), thought you maybe have time to fix this PLEASE:-)

Best Regards
Mikael Bergstrom
Sweden

[David Newman]

We have worked out how to support AVCHD-I, and plan to add it, maybe around NAB.