NeoScene: 720/60P video is accelerated 2x at DVinfo.net

Guy St-Denis · February 20th, 2009, 11:26 PM

Hi,

This technology is new to me, so my problem may be due to my inexperience.

I used NeoScene (trial version) to convert a 720/60P AVCHD file.

The resulting Cineform file plays back the audio at the normal speed, but the video plays back at *twice* the original speed.

I used MediaInfo to compare the AVCHD and Cineform files (see below).
Note that the duration of the video in the Cineform file is *half* of what it is in the original AVCHD file.

What could be the cause of this issue?

Thanks
--
Guy St-Denis

************* START MediaInfo output **********************
Media file information obtained with MediaInfo 0.7.10.BETA

ORIGINAL AVCHD FILE:
-------------------
General
ID : 1
Complete name : G:\media\video\hmc150_01\sdhc-20090111T2152\PRIVATE\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.MTS
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : BluRay Video
File size : 1.51 GiB
Duration : 10mn 53s
Overall bit rate : 19.9 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 24.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Duration : 10mn 52s
Bit rate : 18.7 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.339

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 10mn 53s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Video delay : -67ms

AFTER CONVERSION WITH NEOSCENE + AC3FILTER:
------------------------------------------

General
Complete name : L:\media\video\temp\00000-001.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 3.78 GiB
Duration : 10mn 52s
Overall bit rate : 49.7 Mbps

Video
Format : CineForm HD
Codec ID : CFHD
Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
Duration : 5mn 26s
Bit rate : 96.0 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.738
Stream size : 3.65 GiB (97%)

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Unsigned
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 10mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 120 MiB (3%)
Interleave, duration : 21 ms (1.28 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 2176 ms

************* END MediaInfo output **********************

David Newman · February 21st, 2009, 10:07 AM

Need a sample of a source 60p file that does this.

Guy St-Denis · February 22nd, 2009, 11:17 AM

As mentioned before, I'm working my way through this new technology as well as learning the intricacies of HD and my new Panasonic HMC-150.

Here are my latest findings.

The HMC-150 has several recording formats, summarized as follows:

PH 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 21 Mbps
HA 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 17Mbps
HG 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 13Mbps
HE 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 6 Mbps
PH 1080/30P: 30 frames/s over 60 interlaced fields/s @ 21 Mbps
PH 1080/24P: 24 frames/s native @ 21 Mbps
PH 720/60P: 60 frames/s @ 21 Mbps
PH 720/30P: 30 frames/s over 60 frames/s @ 21 Mbps
PH 720/24P: 24 frames/s native @ 21 Mbps

After testing NeoScene with every format to reproduce the issue I described at the start of the thread, I found that only the "PH 720/30P" format produced the unexpected (to me) results of speeded-up video.
Contrary to my initial claims, the 720/60P format is *NOT* accelerated.

So, at this point I'm not sure if NeoScene would somehow be able to detect a 30P (over 60P) stream and generate a 30P file that plays back @ 30FPS instead of 60FPS as it seems to be doing now...

To be clear, I'm not saying this is a NeoScene bug, just wondering about options (technical or otherwise) to manage 30P (over 60P) footage.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
--
Guy St-Denis

P.S.
This thread discusses this to some extent:
30p showing up as 59.94 frame rate - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

P.P.S.
My AVCHD test files are available for download if anyone wants to look at them:
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-1080-60i.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ha-1080-60i.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/hg-1080-60i.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/he-1080-60i.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-1080-30P.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-1080-24P.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-720-60p.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-720-30p.MTS
http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-720-24p.MTS

Yang Wen · January 5th, 2011, 08:42 AM

I know this is an old thread but I'm having the same issue transcoding AVCHD footage from a Panasonic GF1 which is 30P video in a 59.94 wrapper. The output form NeoScene (v1.6.0) is 2x speed up on the video while audio remains the original speed. I've used the Maintain source frame rate option.

Craig Davidson · January 5th, 2011, 11:23 AM

The 720p/30 format is called "AVCHD Lite" and there is no clear way to detect it. There should be an option to specify this is the source format. On the Mac version there is a check box for AVCHD LIte which will retain the 30fps speed.

Yang Wen · January 5th, 2011, 09:35 PM

Ah I'm guessing the version of NeoScene I have doesn't support this feature? can I still upgrade to a version that does offer this feature? I just noticed that you guys were offering free upgrades thru Aug 31st.. Missed out on it!

Brad Miller · January 18th, 2011, 11:16 PM

I have version 5.2.8 and I can't convert any 720p 60fps clips all the way to completion (stops midway through the clip).

And the video of the portions of the footage that it does manage to convert play back at half speed. Audio, however, is normal speed.

February 20th, 2009, 11:26 PM	#1
Guy St-Denis New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: gatineau, canada Posts: 5	NeoScene: 720/60P video is accelerated 2x Hi, This technology is new to me, so my problem may be due to my inexperience. I used NeoScene (trial version) to convert a 720/60P AVCHD file. The resulting Cineform file plays back the audio at the normal speed, but the video plays back at twice the original speed. I used MediaInfo to compare the AVCHD and Cineform files (see below). Note that the duration of the video in the Cineform file is half of what it is in the original AVCHD file. What could be the cause of this issue? Thanks -- Guy St-Denis *********** START MediaInfo output ******************** Media file information obtained with MediaInfo 0.7.10.BETA ORIGINAL AVCHD FILE: ------------------- General ID : 1 Complete name : G:\media\video\hmc150_01\sdhc-20090111T2152\PRIVATE\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.MTS Format : BDAV Format/Info : BluRay Video File size : 1.51 GiB Duration : 10mn 53s Overall bit rate : 19.9 Mbps Maximum Overall bit rate : 24.0 Mbps Video ID : 4113 (0x1011) Menu ID : 1 (0x1) Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L4.0 Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames Duration : 10mn 52s Bit rate : 18.7 Mbps Width : 1 280 pixels Height : 720 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16/9 Frame rate : 59.940 fps Resolution : 24 bits Colorimetry : 4:2:0 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(PixelFrame) : 0.339 Audio ID : 4352 (0x1100) Menu ID : 1 (0x1) Format : AC-3 Format/Info : Audio Coding 3 Duration : 10mn 53s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 384 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions : L R Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz Video delay : -67ms AFTER CONVERSION WITH NEOSCENE + AC3FILTER: ------------------------------------------ General Complete name : L:\media\video\temp\00000-001.avi Format : AVI Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave Format profile : OpenDML File size : 3.78 GiB Duration : 10mn 52s Overall bit rate : 49.7 Mbps Video Format : CineForm HD Codec ID : CFHD Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet) Duration : 5mn 26s Bit rate : 96.0 Mbps Width : 1 280 pixels Height : 720 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16/9 Frame rate : 59.940 fps Resolution : 24 bits Bits/(PixelFrame) : 1.738 Stream size : 3.65 GiB (97%) Audio Format : PCM Format settings, Endianness : Little Format settings, Sign : Unsigned Codec ID : 1 Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft Duration : 10mn 52s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz Resolution : 16 bits Stream size : 120 MiB (3%) Interleave, duration : 21 ms (1.28 video frame) Interleave, preload duration : 2176 ms *********** END MediaInfo output ********************

February 21st, 2009, 10:07 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Need a sample of a source 60p file that does this. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 22nd, 2009, 11:17 AM	#3
Guy St-Denis New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: gatineau, canada Posts: 5	As mentioned before, I'm working my way through this new technology as well as learning the intricacies of HD and my new Panasonic HMC-150. Here are my latest findings. The HMC-150 has several recording formats, summarized as follows: PH 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 21 Mbps HA 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 17Mbps HG 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 13Mbps HE 1080/60i: 60 interlaced fields/s @ 6 Mbps PH 1080/30P: 30 frames/s over 60 interlaced fields/s @ 21 Mbps PH 1080/24P: 24 frames/s native @ 21 Mbps PH 720/60P: 60 frames/s @ 21 Mbps PH 720/30P: 30 frames/s over 60 frames/s @ 21 Mbps PH 720/24P: 24 frames/s native @ 21 Mbps After testing NeoScene with every format to reproduce the issue I described at the start of the thread, I found that only the "PH 720/30P" format produced the unexpected (to me) results of speeded-up video. Contrary to my initial claims, the 720/60P format is NOT accelerated. So, at this point I'm not sure if NeoScene would somehow be able to detect a 30P (over 60P) stream and generate a 30P file that plays back @ 30FPS instead of 60FPS as it seems to be doing now... To be clear, I'm not saying this is a NeoScene bug, just wondering about options (technical or otherwise) to manage 30P (over 60P) footage. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks -- Guy St-Denis P.S. This thread discusses this to some extent: 30p showing up as 59.94 frame rate - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking P.P.S. My AVCHD test files are available for download if anyone wants to look at them: http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-1080-60i.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ha-1080-60i.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/hg-1080-60i.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/he-1080-60i.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-1080-30P.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-1080-24P.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-720-60p.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-720-30p.MTS http://www.mixtacoda.com/x/avchd/ph-720-24p.MTS

January 5th, 2011, 08:42 AM	#4
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	I know this is an old thread but I'm having the same issue transcoding AVCHD footage from a Panasonic GF1 which is 30P video in a 59.94 wrapper. The output form NeoScene (v1.6.0) is 2x speed up on the video while audio remains the original speed. I've used the Maintain source frame rate option.

January 5th, 2011, 11:23 AM	#5
Craig Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 142	The 720p/30 format is called "AVCHD Lite" and there is no clear way to detect it. There should be an option to specify this is the source format. On the Mac version there is a check box for AVCHD LIte which will retain the 30fps speed.

January 5th, 2011, 09:35 PM	#6
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Ah I'm guessing the version of NeoScene I have doesn't support this feature? can I still upgrade to a version that does offer this feature? I just noticed that you guys were offering free upgrades thru Aug 31st.. Missed out on it!

January 18th, 2011, 11:16 PM	#7
Brad Miller New Boot Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Hoboken, NJ Posts: 11	I have version 5.2.8 and I can't convert any 720p 60fps clips all the way to completion (stops midway through the clip). And the video of the portions of the footage that it does manage to convert play back at half speed. Audio, however, is normal speed.