Release Date for Cineform CS4 at DVinfo.net

Mathew Williams · January 11th, 2009, 04:31 AM

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone's heard anything about when Cineform is releasing a version of Prospect which supports CS4? I've been waiting on news since November - I had read on their site it might be December, but nothing since. Not having an intermediate is seriously impacting my workflow at the moment, I've heard alot of good things about cineform, but there's only so long I can keep my numerous projects waiting!!

Gildo Houtekamer · January 11th, 2009, 04:37 AM

End of January

Mathew Williams · January 11th, 2009, 06:25 AM

Yeah, I'd heard it might be January, but everything seems to have gone very quiet. Plus 'end on Jan' could quite easily slip into Feb, and beyond! Would be nice to hear from the Cineform guys!

Pete Bauer · January 11th, 2009, 08:30 AM

It hasn't gone quiet. Both Davids from Cineform post here almost daily, often including weekends, to answer questions about their products. Last update on CS4 compatible versions was just one week ago:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-...pport-cs4.html
and their own web site continues to say late January:
http://www.cineform.com/products/ProdUpdates0812.htm

With a revamped product line and a lot of coding and testing to do, I'm amazed they're able to spend as much time here as they do. Busy guys!

David Taylor · January 11th, 2009, 10:02 AM

The CS4 release will come in two pieces. The first piece is a CineForm importer (not the full RT engine) and should be available as a Beta in about two weeks, perhaps less. We won't market the importer as a complete solution for those used to using Prospect HD, but for those who really need better use of CineForm footage in CS4 it will work for this.

The second phase is our RT engine which will follow as a Beta "a couple weeks later". We're not sure exactly when we'll have the second-phase Beta release yet, but getting this finished is our number 1 job right now. We'll know more about the timing of the RT engine after we release the importer.

Mathew Williams · January 11th, 2009, 12:59 PM

Thanks David - appreciate the speedy reply - especially on a sunday!! I'm new to cineform, so far I've been struggling along with editing HDV without an intermediate - it's painfully slow as I'm sure you're aware. Will the 'importer' release allow me to convert footage into cineform and edit? If so I imagine it will be quicker to edit with, just none of the real time edit functions? As I'm not already a cineform 'member' will this version be available to buy or download as a trial? Thanks again, please don't rush to get back to me, enjoy what's left of the weekend!!

David Taylor · January 11th, 2009, 03:58 PM

Well I'm done with my hike at Torrey Pines Reserve, so no problem.... Great day here in San Diego BTW....

Yes, with the initial Beta release with the CS4 importer, you'll be able to convert footage into CineForm and edit on the PPro timeline, but not with the usual RT multi-stream performance and effects you get with the full version or Prospect HD. The performance difference between the importer alone and our RT engine is in the range of about 3X, so it is material.

The Beta release will be a free expiring Trial.

David Bowlby · January 12th, 2009, 03:06 PM

David,

Many thanks for keeping prospective Cineform customers in the loop as there are several of us wanting to buy your product for CS4. Just for clarification, if a file is converted using NeoScene (and not Aspect), will the CS4 importer still be necessary, or are you going to update the codec only for CS4 users? The reason I ask is because I have had pretty good success with NeoScene converting AVCHD over and using the footage in CS4 with an AVCHD preset, but the HDV conversion does not work property (I sent your engineers an email with something I discovered where the AVI metadata wrapper is not being correctly created with HDV converted footage, but is correct with AVCHD 60i to 24P conversions). AVCHD 60i to 60i still does not work exactly right when the footage has embedded 3/2 pulldown no matter what the version of PPro.

Thanks

David Taylor · January 12th, 2009, 10:42 PM

David B,

It doesn't matter what version of CineForm product you use to create CineForm files. All CineForm files are created equal - so to speak. But within PPro and AE an importer is required for proper interpretation by PPro/AE of the specific codec if that codec is not natively supported by PPro. So...we need an importer for any compatibility. Once available we intend to ship our CS4 importer with all Neo products for compatibility with both PPro and AE (which use the same importer).

The next level is our Prospect products that include our real-time engine. This is a different animal and allows us to literally replace the PPro playback engine with our own engine. This has many feature and performance benefits because the Wavelet compression we use has many unique characteristics which can be exploited in post if your engine (our engine) knows about the characteristics. PPro doesn't know about these characteristics when there is only an importer, but with our RT engine we can take full advantage.

I think I went further than your question about importers but hopefully that was useful. I won't comment on the AVCHD issues you're reporting as that seems best handled through support.

Craig Irving · January 13th, 2009, 08:53 PM

That's great. All I really care about is the importer, frankly. I'm pretty much just a straight-cuts edit kinda guy. So I don't do a lot of effects work. This way I'll be able to resume work on a few projects. Which is great, cause now the project is frozen. I don't fault Cineform, I just fault my own stubborness for not installing CS3 until CS4 was supported :P

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I'm perfectly happy to get this beta the moment it becomes available.

Sarah Marrciollo · January 14th, 2009, 09:32 AM

Hi David,

How will the new cineform work with full screen overlay? Currently it relies on the video card driver and as you already know Nividia has stopped implementing Full screen overlay on any of the their cards....

Charles W. Hull · January 14th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

It doesn't matter what version of CineForm product you use to create CineForm files. All CineForm files are created equal - so to speak. But within PPro and AE an importer is required for proper interpretation by PPro/AE of the specific codec if that codec is not natively supported by PPro. So...we need an importer for any compatibility. Once available we intend to ship our CS4 importer with all Neo products for compatibility with both PPro and AE (which use the same importer).

The next level is our Prospect products that include our real-time engine. This is a different animal and allows us to literally replace the PPro playback engine with our own engine. This has many feature and performance benefits because the Wavelet compression we use has many unique characteristics which can be exploited in post if your engine (our engine) knows about the characteristics. PPro doesn't know about these characteristics when there is only an importer, but with our RT engine we can take full advantage.

David, when the CS4 importer and CS4 Prospect are implemented will the 5D MkII color space be correctly handled in PPro? (0-255 converted to 16-235.) Or is this a QT issue that CineForm can't resolve?

David Newman · January 15th, 2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles W. Hull

David, when the CS4 importer and CS4 Prospect are implemented will the 5D MkII color space be correctly handled in PPro? (0-255 converted to 16-235.) Or is this a QT issue that CineForm can't resolve?

We handle the colorspace correctly for all yuv source cameras, supers are not lost.

Ed Kishel · January 16th, 2009, 12:13 AM

will this update mean that Premiere Pro cs4 will no longer draw the red or orange bar with neo scene clips?

David Newman · January 16th, 2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kishel

will this update mean that Premiere Pro cs4 will no longer draw the red or orange bar with neo scene clips?

No, sorry that is a CS4 feature. Only Prospect tools add a real-time playback engine that removes those markers.

January 11th, 2009, 04:31 AM	#1
Mathew Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 50	Release Date for Cineform CS4 Hi, I was just wondering if anyone's heard anything about when Cineform is releasing a version of Prospect which supports CS4? I've been waiting on news since November - I had read on their site it might be December, but nothing since. Not having an intermediate is seriously impacting my workflow at the moment, I've heard alot of good things about cineform, but there's only so long I can keep my numerous projects waiting!!

January 11th, 2009, 08:30 AM	#4
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	It hasn't gone quiet. Both Davids from Cineform post here almost daily, often including weekends, to answer questions about their products. Last update on CS4 compatible versions was just one week ago: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-...pport-cs4.html and their own web site continues to say late January: http://www.cineform.com/products/ProdUpdates0812.htm With a revamped product line and a lot of coding and testing to do, I'm amazed they're able to spend as much time here as they do. Busy guys! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

January 12th, 2009, 03:06 PM	#8
David Bowlby New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 8	CS4 Importer Clarification question David, Many thanks for keeping prospective Cineform customers in the loop as there are several of us wanting to buy your product for CS4. Just for clarification, if a file is converted using NeoScene (and not Aspect), will the CS4 importer still be necessary, or are you going to update the codec only for CS4 users? The reason I ask is because I have had pretty good success with NeoScene converting AVCHD over and using the footage in CS4 with an AVCHD preset, but the HDV conversion does not work property (I sent your engineers an email with something I discovered where the AVI metadata wrapper is not being correctly created with HDV converted footage, but is correct with AVCHD 60i to 24P conversions). AVCHD 60i to 60i still does not work exactly right when the footage has embedded 3/2 pulldown no matter what the version of PPro. Thanks

January 14th, 2009, 09:32 AM	#11
Sarah Marrciollo Tourist Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Struthers, OH Posts: 4	overlay Hi David, How will the new cineform work with full screen overlay? Currently it relies on the video card driver and as you already know Nividia has stopped implementing Full screen overlay on any of the their cards....

January 11th, 2009, 04:37 AM	#2
Gildo Houtekamer Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Wemeldinge, Netherlands Posts: 125	End of January

January 11th, 2009, 06:25 AM	#3
Mathew Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 50	Yeah, I'd heard it might be January, but everything seems to have gone very quiet. Plus 'end on Jan' could quite easily slip into Feb, and beyond! Would be nice to hear from the Cineform guys!

January 11th, 2009, 10:02 AM	#5
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	The CS4 release will come in two pieces. The first piece is a CineForm importer (not the full RT engine) and should be available as a Beta in about two weeks, perhaps less. We won't market the importer as a complete solution for those used to using Prospect HD, but for those who really need better use of CineForm footage in CS4 it will work for this. The second phase is our RT engine which will follow as a Beta "a couple weeks later". We're not sure exactly when we'll have the second-phase Beta release yet, but getting this finished is our number 1 job right now. We'll know more about the timing of the RT engine after we release the importer.

January 11th, 2009, 12:59 PM	#6
Mathew Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 50	Thanks David - appreciate the speedy reply - especially on a sunday!! I'm new to cineform, so far I've been struggling along with editing HDV without an intermediate - it's painfully slow as I'm sure you're aware. Will the 'importer' release allow me to convert footage into cineform and edit? If so I imagine it will be quicker to edit with, just none of the real time edit functions? As I'm not already a cineform 'member' will this version be available to buy or download as a trial? Thanks again, please don't rush to get back to me, enjoy what's left of the weekend!!

January 11th, 2009, 03:58 PM	#7
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Well I'm done with my hike at Torrey Pines Reserve, so no problem.... Great day here in San Diego BTW.... Yes, with the initial Beta release with the CS4 importer, you'll be able to convert footage into CineForm and edit on the PPro timeline, but not with the usual RT multi-stream performance and effects you get with the full version or Prospect HD. The performance difference between the importer alone and our RT engine is in the range of about 3X, so it is material. The Beta release will be a free expiring Trial.

January 12th, 2009, 10:42 PM	#9
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	David B, It doesn't matter what version of CineForm product you use to create CineForm files. All CineForm files are created equal - so to speak. But within PPro and AE an importer is required for proper interpretation by PPro/AE of the specific codec if that codec is not natively supported by PPro. So...we need an importer for any compatibility. Once available we intend to ship our CS4 importer with all Neo products for compatibility with both PPro and AE (which use the same importer). The next level is our Prospect products that include our real-time engine. This is a different animal and allows us to literally replace the PPro playback engine with our own engine. This has many feature and performance benefits because the Wavelet compression we use has many unique characteristics which can be exploited in post if your engine (our engine) knows about the characteristics. PPro doesn't know about these characteristics when there is only an importer, but with our RT engine we can take full advantage. I think I went further than your question about importers but hopefully that was useful. I won't comment on the AVCHD issues you're reporting as that seems best handled through support.

January 13th, 2009, 08:53 PM	#10
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	That's great. All I really care about is the importer, frankly. I'm pretty much just a straight-cuts edit kinda guy. So I don't do a lot of effects work. This way I'll be able to resume work on a few projects. Which is great, cause now the project is frozen. I don't fault Cineform, I just fault my own stubborness for not installing CS3 until CS4 was supported :P Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I'm perfectly happy to get this beta the moment it becomes available.

January 16th, 2009, 12:13 AM	#14
Ed Kishel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 80	will this update mean that Premiere Pro cs4 will no longer draw the red or orange bar with neo scene clips?