Double Checking: Neo Scene has 24p pulldown?

[Simon Dean]

I'm sending a short clip to support. It's not just Vegas, it does it when you scrub in VirtualDub and in Premiere Pro CS3.

[Wolf Korgyn]

The original poster asks if Neo Scene will do the "Remove Pulldown" process to extract the true 24p content from the HV20/30 HDV stream which telecines it into standard 60i. David Taylor says that indeed it does (from his earlier post). I have seen similar claims on various other posts. So, I trusted all these assorted posts, jumped right in, and being a complete fool - bought the Neo Scene without first loading the 3-day trial.

The capture screen in Neo-Scene offers a 24 "conversion" - but not the specific "Remove Pulldown" option I have seen on other screenshots elsewhere. I don't want to "convert" my footage, I want to extract the actual 24p material properly from the 60i stream. After some closer scrutiny, I think I may be screwed and actually need NeoHD instead - which makes specific mention of the HV20/30 pulldown option.

Yes, I am an idiot who in his excitement for his new gear, ran in charging at windmills like Don Quixote, credit card in paw, without testing the goods first. Am I just going to have to eat the $129, then save up for the $499 NeoHD? - because after $1000 for the camera, tripod, etc - my software budget is a bit slim and I need to pace it out some.

Any advice from the pros would be helpful.

Respectfully,
Wolf

[David Newman]

Convert to 24p is the option you want. It extracts pulldown when detected automatically, plus detect native 24p sources (XLH1/A1, JVC cameras etc.) and leaves those untouched and it converts any regular 60i to 24p -- it does a lot base on your source type. We changed the name as so many used the Remove pulldown feature of NEO HD wrong. More users know they have 24p than they have a camera that uses pulldown.

[David Taylor]

The 24p extraction in Neo Scene is (temporarily) a bit more sophisticated than is currently shipping in Neo HD due to some recent updates. That's why the interface was simplified. You're not losing features in Neo Scene. We'll be updating Neo HD in its next release as well.

[Wolf Korgyn]

Fan-friggen-tastic!

I am officially NOT a moron... well, ok... that is yet to be decided. BUT! I bought the right stuff. I have wanted to get into Cinematography for several years, but just never had the time. Now that my life has calmed down some, I am jumping in with all four paws. This fall, I should have a decent pool of cash saved up for a full-blown RED Scarlet S35 kit, Mac Pro, Neo HD4K, FCP, and MBL - but now, yeah I'm still a bit dry on funds... so I figured that the spare cash I do have could be spent in such a fashion as to allow me to spend the summer learning basic techniques (smooth panning, focus, optics, aperature, editing, color correction, etc) with some entry-level gear (HV30, Premiere, Libec sticks, etc)... and that was a long-winded way around the mill to simply say - I am thrilled to know that Neo Scene will work as expected - since one foundational element across the board is that Cineform codecs are simply the best there is for both quality AND workflow.

Thanks guys for such a speedy response!

Howls,
Wolf

[David Newman]

Thanks for the feedback. If this comes up again we'll have to see if more words are needed to explain the 24p processing.

[Wolf Korgyn]

Perhaps if you labeled that checkbox as it is now:

"Convert to 24p(25p)"

Then add a tooltip or mouseover stating:

"Select this option if importing from a camera that natively records in 24p, a 24p variant such as the Canon 24f format, or encapsulates 24p within a 60i container. Enabling this feature will automatically perform any necessary conversions or pulldown removal based on the capture source."

... or something like that. :)

Howls,
Wolf

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Wolf Korgyn

Fan-friggen-tastic!

I am officially NOT a moron... well, ok... that is yet to be decided. BUT! I bought the right stuff. I have wanted to get into Cinematography for several years, but just never had the time. Now that my life has calmed down some, I am jumping in with all four paws. This fall, I should have a decent pool of cash saved up for a full-blown RED Scarlet S35 kit, Mac Pro, Neo HD4K, FCP, and MBL - but now, yeah I'm still a bit dry on funds... so I figured that the spare cash I do have could be spent in such a fashion as to allow me to spend the summer learning basic techniques (smooth panning, focus, optics, aperature, editing, color correction, etc) with some entry-level gear (HV30, Premiere, Libec sticks, etc)... and that was a long-winded way around the mill to simply say - I am thrilled to know that Neo Scene will work as expected - since one foundational element across the board is that Cineform codecs are simply the best there is for both quality AND workflow.

Thanks guys for such a speedy response!

Howls,
Wolf

Jesus.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that you're getting into videography.

But for crying out loud, that's looking like an expensive disaster!

The RED Scarlet S35 kit is great but my general rule is that if one particular component is going to cost you more than $3000, don't get it until you know you can get paid for it. I'm still an amateur, and I've been doing this for two years now.

Start with the basics - a decent consumer camera (I'm working with the HG20 right now), decent editing software (Sony Vegas Pro 8.0 does everything FCP does for $200 at BHPhotoVideo.com - and it doesn't require you to buy a Mac.)

I also noticed that you've got nothing in that kit saved up for audio. Rule of thumb. Whatever you have budgeted for your camera, be prepared to spend at least that amount on audio equipment. Audio is MUCH more important than video.

[Wolf Korgyn]

I don't know if I'd use the term "disaster" to describe my plan. This wasn't a gear critique thread, and I hijacked it enough as it is. It should go without saying my list wasn't a definitive all-encompassing kit, just the highlights. As for audio, I plan to ease into "double-system" audio during my pursuit of knowledge this summer.

And to respond to your suggestion, yes - I AM starting small... thus my current HV30, Premiere, NeoScene, ATR35 mics, assorted filters, libec tripod, and 5 great books on the subject. My goal is that by fall, I have a good grasp of the basics, have shot at least two or three things of substance, and have fallen in love with the craft.

My "prosumer" budget this fall that I mentioned is $30k - which I figure should cover all that I mentioned with a couple thousand left over for travel (as that is my goal, to shoot mostly nature-related material, starting with the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone.

There. Sorry for the thread-jacking, but I figured I'd respond to the previous post.

I now return you to your normally scheduled Cineform Coolness.

Howls,
Wolf

[Mathieu Kassovitz]

Reading this . . . Eugenia’s Rants and Thoughts Blog Archive Canon HV20 24p Pulldown

It says that Canon does not include “flags” in that stream to guide applications regarding its cadence.

Is Neo Scene an efficient solution for this with no field hassles at all?

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

Yes, NeoScene manages it fine.

[Earl Laamanen]

David, out of curiosity, what will Neo Scene do to a 30p AVCHD source? Taking the very literal "convert to 24p" I could expect it does something nasty, but hopefully it will leave true progressive sources alone?

Normally I wouldn't mix FP24 and 30 clips, so it shouldn't matter anyway but if it's safe, then I would always leave that option on. It's easy to test myself, just thought I'd ask as it could be interesting for others as well.

[David Newman]

30p sources should have the convert 24p setting off, as it will try and produce a 24p images with limited success.