Neo Scene -- various topics

[Tom Santopolo]

So is the problem I am having because of the licensing issue? I do have COREAVC pro version 1.9 installed with Mediasplitter and HDLink crashes. Does an earlier version of COREAVC work?

[David Newman]

No, you using CoreAVC that is a different component, not what we are licensing. CoreAVC works in 95% of systems, it seems like the 5% can't resolve some other system conflicts. One of the reason we are adding a AVC decoder to version 4, so we don't have these system conflicts, add we can features with fewer support issues.

[Ron Evans]

I had tried NEO Scene a few times and it worked well so have bought and installed on my system. I now have a problem where DVD Architect will not create a Bluray and stops with message " external video renderer has stopped". If I then change project settings to SD DVD it will continue and start to encode the file for DVD creation. I have uninstalled first the AC3 filter( which I didn't seem to need for the trial but need to get audio for the purchased version) with no effect. Then uninstalled Neo Scene and all now works. I have contacted support but was interested to find if anyone else had this problem.
System is X48 DQ6 motherboard, Q9450, 8G RAM running Vista 64.

Ron Evans

[Andy Todzia]

Interesting. I didn't realize NeoScene was involved with this. The same thing happened to me, coincidentally right after I installed NeoScene to try it out. The solution is that if you install DVDA version 5.0 it will work again with NeoScene also installed. Either Sony or Cineform created an incompatibility with 64 bit Vista and DVDA 5.0a.

[Ron Evans]

I will try again but I think I actually had DVD Architect 5.0 installed, then installed 5.0a to see if that would solve the problem , then unnistalled first the AC3 filter then Neoscene. Will start again when I have time.

Ron Evans

[Steven Reid]

Present workflow: capture HDV in Vegas 8 from Canon XH-A1 (24f). Edit native captured clips directly on timeline. Color correct within Vegas, mostly with Magic Bullet Looks. Render to SD MPEG2 for delivery on DVD.

Problem: heavy color correction/grading sometimes introduces color banding, 'blockiness', and color distortion in portions of image.

Contemplated workflow: capture HDV as above, convert to Cineform AVI with NeoScene, then color correct and grade on AVI clips, and render as above.

Question: Will this single change in my workflow result in a better looking color corrected/graded product? In other words, will the Cineform AVI hold up better to aggressive color grading than did the native HDV source material?

Note: I'm rendering only once, as stated, so I don't need the lossless attribute for multiple renders. I ask because of the expanded "headroom" of 4:2:2 colorspace touted by the Cineform AVI, and I've seen anecdotal evidence (textual) of this actually resulting in better looking rendered footage. Will this make a difference specifically when using Vegas 8?

Thanks,
Steve

[David Newman]

Try for yourself. However your color banding and blockiness in your DVD is not something 4:2:2 upsampling helps with, that is all due to you down stream encoding. While CineForm helps solve many things in post, a bad download encode can still waste many of your efforts. Try a different encoding software, bit-rates etc. The better your download encoding the more you will get out of using a CineForm product.

[Steven Reid]

Thanks for the quick reply. I had a hunch that "try for yourself" would be the ultimate suggestion, which I'll follow. Looks like a minimum effort to test this.

Query on terminology: "download encoding" = render/compression out of NLE?

Thanks again.

Steve

[David Newman]

I meant to type "downstream encoding"

[Jack Walker]

Originally Posted by Steven Reid

Query on terminology: "download encoding" = render/compression out of NLE?
Steve

Are you referring to the words in the post, "down stream encoding"? If so, that would be the encoding after editing, color correcting, etc.

A good encoder you can try is TMPGEnc 4 XPress. This is one of the best encoders, and it will give a good idea if encoding is the problem. There is a 14 day free trial:
TMPGEnc - Download: TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress Downloads

Also, I would suggest using your current encoder to re-encode the timeline without making corrections and changes.

Other encoders that give good results you may or may not have are Procoder, CCE (Cinema Craft), and the encoder with Adobe Encore (don't remember the name of it).

Try encoding tests at about 7500 constant bit rate to eliminate variable rate issues your encoder may have.

It is also possible that the encoder is causing problems, but Cineform could still help by providing a "cleaner" intra-frame source. I would think that timeline rendering in native mpeg could deteriorate the quality, as well. But all said, I'm not an expert.

[Steven Reid]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Are you referring to the words in the post, "down stream encoding"? If so, that would be the encoding after editing, color correcting, etc.

A good encoder you can try is TMPGEnc 4 XPress. This is one of the best encoders, and it will give a good idea if encoding is the problem. There is a 14 day free trial:
TMPGEnc - Download: TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress Downloads

Also, I would suggest using your current encoder to re-encode the timeline without making corrections and changes.

Other encoders that give good results you may or may not have are Procoder, CCE (Cinema Craft), and the encoder with Adobe Encore (don't remember the name of it).

Try encoding tests at about 7500 constant bit rate to eliminate variable rate issues your encoder may have.

It is also possible that the encoder is causing problems, but Cineform could still help by providing a "cleaner" intra-frame source. I would think that timeline rendering in native mpeg could deteriorate the quality, as well. But all said, I'm not an expert.

Many thanks for your suggestions, Jack. I don't harbor any illusions that downstream encoding to MPEG-2 for delivery on DVD will do my images any favors, regardless of what encoder I use. Vegas 8, for instance, utilizes the MainConcept encoder, which I understand is quite good (not as good as others you mention? I have no idea.) Yes, I always encode CBR at about 8000.

But note the thrust of my original post focused on what I could do to my raw footage BEFORE any downstream encoding artifacts are introduced (that is, after color grading and correction) that would reap overall image improvements. For instance, color grading of my native HDV clips ON THE TIMELINE can produce odd color distortions that I see ON THE TIMELINE if I push hard. To be clear, I can see these distortions on my editing timeline.

I query whether editing Cineform AVI's generated from my source HDV footage instead would be more tolerant of the grading, i.e., not easily resulting in the color artifacts, and that would survive nicely after downstream encoding. Suggestion seems to be: just do it and see what happens!

In my ignorance, I may be asking for a solution that is best addressed by choice of downstream encoder, as your and David's posts suggest, given inherent limitations of my source footage. Still, if I can eke out better quality, I'd want to know.

Thanks,
Steve

[Jack Walker]

(Adobe Encore uses the Main Concept encoder, I believe, as well.)

I think that an intermediate file would give you improvements, whether it be Cineform, SheerVideo, or simply setting the timeline (if possible in Vegas) to uncompressed before rendering and exporting.

I am setting up a new system for a particular project, and I have similar requirements as you seem to, that is, extensive color grading and special effects with a minimum of quality loss before final output.

At this point I have concluded that Cineform Prospect HD, with the new "First Light" capabilities, might be perfect. (I don't know if it will be necessary to do special effects and color grading in a 4:4:4 format or not.)

We have special looks for different sequences, and we are using more than one camera, so the idea of doing non-destructive color grading and matching (which it seems "First Light" might do, though we will know next week) before final rendering and output is very appealing.

Hopefully, "First Light" will also let us go back and batch apply a changed preset to clips used in a sequence.

[Chad Jones]

I've been trying to evaluate Neo Scene, for a couple of updates now, on my Vista 64 bit system. So far, I have not been able to get it to work. I evaluated a version of Aspect prior to this attempt, which was un-installed before the installation of Neo Scene. I've attached some screen shots below of what happening. When I try to convert a 5d mark ii file, Neo Scene quits giving me the "HD Link.exe has stopped working" message. When I try to capture HDV footage, the application begins to capture and then immediately stops giving me the "invalid pointer" error. Does anyone have any suggestions to fix this problem?

Thanks,
Chad Jones

Here are my system specs:

Dell Core i7 920
Vista 64 bit
4 GB Ram
Radeon 4850
CS4

[Jay Bloomfield]

What exactly is qtmux? It looks like something that was part of a software or codec package that you installed. Try uninstalling it. Or run GSpot and see what you can find out about qtmux.

[David Newman]

Sound like there may have been an old Aspect HD setting that is throwing off Neo Scene. You should not be using QTMux, with is for producing MOVs on the output.

Try this:

1) Uninstall Neo Scene.
2) Open RegEdit
3) Delete everything in HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/CineForm
4) Reinstall Neo Scene
5) Try again.