CineForm Discontinues Neo HDV

David Taylor · January 5th, 2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cline

Will NEO Scene allow me to decode and encode 1920x1080-60i Cineform .AVI files in VFW-only applications like Virtual Dub?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cline

Also, I currently use v3.3.0 Cineform codec in Vegas v8.0c on all my intermediate files, including 720x480 SD footage, does NEO Scene support all standard resolutions up to 1920x1080, or just 1440x1080 and 1920x1080.

The HD Link portion of Neo Scene will only convert HDV and AVCHD files at their source spatial resolution. But any rendering performed by 3rd party apps using our VfW codec will support all resolutions up to 1920x1080.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cline

Does installing the v346b NEO Player update "break" 1440x1080 encoding in Vegas?

No, it just adds updated decoder components. You should experiment yourself, but I think you'll be better off at least adding Neo Scene as the encoder is MUCH newer than the old encoder shipped inside Vegas.

John Cline · January 5th, 2009, 01:19 PM

Thanks, David. I'll go buy NEO Scene right now.

John Cline · January 5th, 2009, 01:57 PM

Alright, one more question... I am dual-booting WinXP and Vista64 on the same machine. I just purchased NEO Scene, will I be allowed to install my one purchased copy in both operating systems? Is the machine ID generated for authorization tied to the OS or the hardware on the machine or some combination of the two?

David Taylor · January 5th, 2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cline

Alright, one more question... I am dual-booting WinXP and Vista64 on the same machine. I just purchased NEO Scene, will I be allowed to install my one purchased copy in both operating systems? Is the machine ID generated for authorization tied to the OS or the hardware on the machine or some combination of the two?

Yes. The official licensing policy is one machine per serial number. But we're also pragmatic, and we'll allow a second license for laptops, for dual-boot situations like yours, and for other valid scenarios. Neo Scene comes with two activations allowed with the same S/N for exactly this scenario.

Procedurally you'll have to do another full activation on your second machine (or boot) using the same S/N. The "System Code" will not be the same for the second activation. Our activation codes are keyed off the System Code.

John Cline · January 5th, 2009, 02:42 PM

Terrific! That seems like a perfectly reasonable policy. It's a pleasure doing business with you.

David Bowlby · January 5th, 2009, 02:52 PM

I am hopeful someone will be able to answer a couple of questions. I will post the other in another thread.

I used HDLink with the HDV trial product without a problem converting my .m2ts files for 24p and 60i. NeoScene errors out though with the following in the log.
Errors are:
Converting [file names appear]....
Building conversion graph
Error: m_graph->ConnectDirect(outputPin, inputPin, 0) (0x80040240 - IDispatch error #64) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 298)

Error: GetPin(pUpStream, PINDIR_OUTPUT, %outputPin) (0x80004005 - Unspecified error) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 296)

Error:mgraph->ConnectDirect(outputPin, inputPin, 0)(0x80040207 - The owner SID on a per-ser subscription doesn't exist) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 298)

Error:ConnectPin(VideoDecoder, cfEncoder)(0x80040207 - The owner SID on a per-user subscription doesn't exist) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 3079)

I am running Vista 64 bit and as stated before, the old version of HDlink that came with HDV product works fine. Just to make sure there was no conflict, I re-imaged the machine to a state prior to when HDV was installed so NeoScene is a fresh install and it has the same errors.

Note: Is there an easy way to save the error log so I don't have to type it in?
Precise Steps to Reproduce the Problem: 1. Select the files
2. Select Prefs
3. Leave all defaults ...or ...24P
4. Click start

This is an AVCHD file from a Canon HF11

I have this opened as a case with Cineform, but they are probably busy with the new release. Thanks in advance.

David Newman · January 5th, 2009, 02:59 PM

Support is now back, no more support posts on the forum please.

David Bowlby · January 5th, 2009, 03:01 PM

I have a Canon HV30 that was shot in 24P mode and HDLink is not consistently creating the files correctly. When I bring the converted files into Premiere Pro CS4, some of the converted files are VERY choppy and unusable. I have determined that when they are in this state, Premiere things they are a 23.97 fps file and not a 23.976 file (the ones that come in as 23.976 work fine). The strange part is I can't get it to consistently fail or succeed. I shot the footage on a brand new tape and stopped recording twice (no rewind, just stop and then hitting record again). I can capture it in PPro as an HDV mpeg file no problem and edit it ok in a 60i timeline. When I convert the mpeg file over using HDLink and set it to split the files, it creates 3 files (the first two only take up 3 minutes the rest of the tape is an hour). The first two that are created are small and come into PPro correctly as 23.976 fps files. The third one however consistently is created as a 23.97 fps file and does not work. If I just record a 10 minute segment instead of letting it run the entire length of the tape, many times it creates the 23.976fps file correctly, but not always. Is there something that needs to be done to correctly convert and remove the 3/2 pulldown? Has anyone seen a 23.97fps file created by HDLink before?

I have also tried performing the capture directly from HDlink connected to the camera and I get very similar results.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am anxious to buy this product, but if I can't reliably convert files it will be a problem.

David Newman · January 5th, 2009, 03:46 PM

23.97? that is not coming from HDLink. Do you mean 29.97 and that the pulldown is not being removed? Please file a trouble ticket at cineform.com/support.

Question for the forum should be user related, how to do this or that. Technical failures or bug reports go to support as they can't be addressed by other users.

Simon Dean · January 6th, 2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

I just added an upgrade from Connect HD to Neo Scene as an order option for $99. Click on Neo Scene to purchase, and the upgrade order options from Neo HDV or Connect HD will be visible.

Excellent! Thanks, will order tonight (When I can get at my serial number).

David Garvin · January 6th, 2009, 03:49 PM

Is this PC only? I have not used Cineform products but at this price it sounds appealling but looks like it's PC only. Is there a comparable final cut pro option?

David Taylor · January 6th, 2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Garvin

Is this PC only? I have not used Cineform products but at this price it sounds appealling but looks like it's PC only. Is there a comparable final cut pro option?

We're planning a Mac version of Neo Scene but don't have a schedule yet.

David Newman · January 6th, 2009, 08:02 PM

For those with AVCHD "Error:ConnectPin" issue, that is now fixed. Download the preview of Neo Scene v1.0.2 here: http://miscdata.com/cineform/NeoScen...105-090106.zip

Please report back if you fixes your conversions.

Ed Kishel · January 6th, 2009, 11:01 PM

I am running the demo of Neo Scene and when I put the new intermediate clip next to the original AVCHD in vegas 8.0c the AVCHD still plays back at 24 fps while the Neo avi drops to about 16 fps. The preview monitor is set to preview full. The AVCHD is approx 100mb and the Neo avi is about 550mb. I used full HD high setting. I expected vegas to have a harder time playing back the AVCHD than the Neo avi. Is it the file size? If so this product won't work for me.

The weird thing is, that when I click on the avi in the media bin, it plays fine in the auto preview window- but as soon as I add it to the timeline, playback slows way down.

My project file is the HD 1080-24p (1920x1080) preset in vegas. My machine is a Q9450 quad core/ 3 gig ram DDR3/win xp 32/9600GT 1GB DDR2 all service packs and drivers up to date

also, my Neo avi's render without audio??

any ideas?

David Newman · January 7th, 2009, 12:31 PM

Vegas is slow for third party codecs at full resolution (you will see the AVI plays fine outside of Vegas,) however if you set playback to preview Half as you will see performance gains as the CineForm performance scales much better than AVCHD files with Half and Quarter preview modes. We have talking to Sony about their slow full-res handling, thing sound promising that things will be easy for third parties with Vegas 9 (can't give details.)

January 5th, 2009, 01:19 PM	#32
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Thanks, David. I'll go buy NEO Scene right now. Last edited by John Cline; January 5th, 2009 at 01:57 PM.

January 5th, 2009, 02:52 PM	#36
David Bowlby New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 8	NeoScene not working on Vista64, but HDV does I am hopeful someone will be able to answer a couple of questions. I will post the other in another thread. I used HDLink with the HDV trial product without a problem converting my .m2ts files for 24p and 60i. NeoScene errors out though with the following in the log. Errors are: Converting [file names appear].... Building conversion graph Error: m_graph->ConnectDirect(outputPin, inputPin, 0) (0x80040240 - IDispatch error #64) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 298) Error: GetPin(pUpStream, PINDIR_OUTPUT, %outputPin) (0x80004005 - Unspecified error) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 296) Error:mgraph->ConnectDirect(outputPin, inputPin, 0)(0x80040207 - The owner SID on a per-ser subscription doesn't exist) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 298) Error:ConnectPin(VideoDecoder, cfEncoder)(0x80040207 - The owner SID on a per-user subscription doesn't exist) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 3079) I am running Vista 64 bit and as stated before, the old version of HDlink that came with HDV product works fine. Just to make sure there was no conflict, I re-imaged the machine to a state prior to when HDV was installed so NeoScene is a fresh install and it has the same errors. Note: Is there an easy way to save the error log so I don't have to type it in? Precise Steps to Reproduce the Problem: 1. Select the files 2. Select Prefs 3. Leave all defaults ...or ...24P 4. Click start This is an AVCHD file from a Canon HF11 I have this opened as a case with Cineform, but they are probably busy with the new release. Thanks in advance.

January 5th, 2009, 02:59 PM	#37
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Support is now back, no more support posts on the forum please. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#38
David Bowlby New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 8	HDLink not pulling 3/2 pulldown out correctly consistently I have a Canon HV30 that was shot in 24P mode and HDLink is not consistently creating the files correctly. When I bring the converted files into Premiere Pro CS4, some of the converted files are VERY choppy and unusable. I have determined that when they are in this state, Premiere things they are a 23.97 fps file and not a 23.976 file (the ones that come in as 23.976 work fine). The strange part is I can't get it to consistently fail or succeed. I shot the footage on a brand new tape and stopped recording twice (no rewind, just stop and then hitting record again). I can capture it in PPro as an HDV mpeg file no problem and edit it ok in a 60i timeline. When I convert the mpeg file over using HDLink and set it to split the files, it creates 3 files (the first two only take up 3 minutes the rest of the tape is an hour). The first two that are created are small and come into PPro correctly as 23.976 fps files. The third one however consistently is created as a 23.97 fps file and does not work. If I just record a 10 minute segment instead of letting it run the entire length of the tape, many times it creates the 23.976fps file correctly, but not always. Is there something that needs to be done to correctly convert and remove the 3/2 pulldown? Has anyone seen a 23.97fps file created by HDLink before? I have also tried performing the capture directly from HDlink connected to the camera and I get very similar results. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am anxious to buy this product, but if I can't reliably convert files it will be a problem.

January 5th, 2009, 03:46 PM	#39
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	23.97? that is not coming from HDLink. Do you mean 29.97 and that the pulldown is not being removed? Please file a trouble ticket at cineform.com/support. Question for the forum should be user related, how to do this or that. Technical failures or bug reports go to support as they can't be addressed by other users. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 5th, 2009, 01:57 PM	#33
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Alright, one more question... I am dual-booting WinXP and Vista64 on the same machine. I just purchased NEO Scene, will I be allowed to install my one purchased copy in both operating systems? Is the machine ID generated for authorization tied to the OS or the hardware on the machine or some combination of the two?

January 5th, 2009, 02:42 PM	#35
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Terrific! That seems like a perfectly reasonable policy. It's a pleasure doing business with you.

January 6th, 2009, 03:49 PM	#41
David Garvin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Central, OH Posts: 207	Is this PC only? I have not used Cineform products but at this price it sounds appealling but looks like it's PC only. Is there a comparable final cut pro option?

January 6th, 2009, 08:02 PM	#43
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	For those with AVCHD "Error:ConnectPin" issue, that is now fixed. Download the preview of Neo Scene v1.0.2 here: http://miscdata.com/cineform/NeoScen...105-090106.zip Please report back if you fixes your conversions. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 6th, 2009, 11:01 PM	#44
Ed Kishel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 80	I am running the demo of Neo Scene and when I put the new intermediate clip next to the original AVCHD in vegas 8.0c the AVCHD still plays back at 24 fps while the Neo avi drops to about 16 fps. The preview monitor is set to preview full. The AVCHD is approx 100mb and the Neo avi is about 550mb. I used full HD high setting. I expected vegas to have a harder time playing back the AVCHD than the Neo avi. Is it the file size? If so this product won't work for me. The weird thing is, that when I click on the avi in the media bin, it plays fine in the auto preview window- but as soon as I add it to the timeline, playback slows way down. My project file is the HD 1080-24p (1920x1080) preset in vegas. My machine is a Q9450 quad core/ 3 gig ram DDR3/win xp 32/9600GT 1GB DDR2 all service packs and drivers up to date also, my Neo avi's render without audio?? any ideas? Last edited by Ed Kishel; January 7th, 2009 at 12:33 PM.

January 7th, 2009, 12:31 PM	#45
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Vegas is slow for third party codecs at full resolution (you will see the AVI plays fine outside of Vegas,) however if you set playback to preview Half as you will see performance gains as the CineForm performance scales much better than AVCHD files with Half and Quarter preview modes. We have talking to Sony about their slow full-res handling, thing sound promising that things will be easy for third parties with Vegas 9 (can't give details.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman