Aspect HD at DVinfo.net

Brad Hawkins · August 23rd, 2003, 02:28 PM

According to their website Aspect HD is now shipping and I would love to hear any reviews from those who have purchased the software. I am especially interested to find out if their codec will not only with Premiere, but with After Effects and other programs.

Thanks in advance,

Brad

David Newman · August 23rd, 2003, 03:44 PM

I also look forward to the reviews, in the meantime I can tell you more about the codec.

CFHD -- the FOURCC code for CineForm HD Codec -- has three system freely components: A DirectShow Decoder and Encoder and a Video For Windows (VFW) Decoder. This means this codec can be used with any tools that supports DirectShow or VFW. So yes to After Effects and hundreds of other tools.

John Eriksson · August 27th, 2003, 08:18 AM

Does Premiere Pro have native support for HD? And if so what do we need Aspect HD for?

David Newman · August 28th, 2003, 09:25 AM

Premiere Pro just like Premiere 6.5 supports HD resolutions in Video for Window mode (VFW), however this mode is not real-time, and Premiere includes no solution to convert the transport stream file to the required AVI format. Aspect HD is like a hardware accellerater card for your editing software -- like Matrox RT-X100 or a Pinancle Pro One -- yet these cards only accellerate DV video, Aspect HD accelerates 720p HD video (without plugin hardware.) So you can use Premiere 6.5/Pro alone to edit HD, making the editing experience a lot more labor intensive (all rendered) and requiring the use on uncompressed (or HUFYUV compressed) AVIs that use a very large amount of disk space (30 - 55MBytes per second.) Aspect HD files average around 8MBytes per second, with an image quality, and multi-generation abilities, way above MPEG2-TS. There is a whole lot of information about this on the CineForm web site.

Kevin A. Sturges · August 28th, 2003, 11:31 AM

How does Vegas Video work with HD? Is the display realtime?

David Newman · August 28th, 2003, 12:55 PM

Like Premiere, Vegas Video does natively support HD resolutions, however just like Premiere, Vegas it is un-accelerated. Vegas will get you a slow-ish preview (frames dropped) if you do much processing on the HD video, pacticularly for mulitple stream (2 or more.) i.e. a dissolve will not be fully real-time. There are mixed reports if it can handle transport streams directly, although it can handle MPEG-2 editing (although not in their trail version.) Video Vegas can't directly export as MPEG2-TS, so you can't output your final HD project to D-VHS without other (unknown) components. Aspect HD is accelerated (far more real-time) and can export to MPEG2-TS. Bascially Vegas can be made to work, but not as well as a solution designed for HD in real-time.

John Eriksson · August 28th, 2003, 01:15 PM

Will aspect HD and Premiere send the scrubb HD signal back to the camera for downconverting and viewing directly on the tv while editing? Or will I edit using the small application window?

David Newman · August 28th, 2003, 01:25 PM

Unfotunately encoding MPEG2-TS on the fly would kill real-time performance. Instead we recommend using a Matrox P750 or Parhelia to provide a real-time external monitor preview. Just what you need.

Chaim Bianco · August 28th, 2003, 02:07 PM

david,

a few questions:

i assume the aspectHD codec if YUV 4:2:2. if so, how is it that youve managed to get the data rate below that of the huffyUV, which from what i understand cuts very close to the bone of uncompressed datarates. is your codec lossless?

are the dissolves/transitions performed in yuv or rgb colorspace?

will aspectHD work on premiere 6.5 in Win2K? -- or is winXP it?

can avi files encoded with your codec be read and written in other programs like aftereffects?

John Eriksson · August 28th, 2003, 04:06 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Unfotunately encoding MPEG2-TS on the fly would kill real-time performance. Instead we recommend using a Matrox P750 or Parhelia to provide a real-time external monitor preview. Just what you need. -->>>

Ok, thanks!
But will it do "on the fly" downencoding of HD -> TV without the realtime preformance than anyways? By the way, is the realtime you are talking about the renering of fades, wipes and sutch effects? Because I don´t tink that I need that kind of stuff anyhow..

David Newman · August 28th, 2003, 04:13 PM

Chaim,

The CineForm HD Codec (CFHD) is visually lossless not mathematically lossless. Yes it is 4:2:2. We will provide mathematically lossless version for film and broadcast applications but felt this wasn't necessary for HDV given its MPEG-2 roots.

All real-time effects and filters are performed in YUV colorspace.

WinXP only.

CFHD AVI files can be read into nearly all Windows based packages has it has both DirectShow and VFW decoding support. This includes After Effects. For writing CFHD AVI files, DirectShow support is required. After Effects doesn't have DirectShow exporting ability, so I would recommend using HUFFYUV or Uncompressed for export. The resulting file can be converted into CFHD again using Premiere.

David Newman · August 28th, 2003, 04:24 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson :
Re: Maxtorx P750 ...

Ok, thanks!
But will it do "on the fly" downencoding of HD -> TV without the realtime preformance than anyways? -->>>

Sorry I don't quite understand the question. HD->TV conversion for the Matrox cards happens in real-time while we are doing everything else. It is a feature of the Maxtrox cards. If the editing software don't do real-time the TV out will not be real-time. Is that what you were asking?

<<<--By the way, is the realtime you are talking about the renering of fades, wipes and sutch effects? Because I don´t tink that I need that kind of stuff anyhow.. -->>>

It is that and much more (the stuff you do need.) The flashy stuff like multi-channel motion video, title ovelays and 3D Page turns etc. is all real-time, but so are the necessary tools. Your bread and butter cuts, dissolves, color correction, and 3-point color balance controls are also completely real-time. Professional work using the JVC camera will require standard and 3-point color correction, that is typically very slow on non-real-time systems.

John Eriksson · August 28th, 2003, 04:39 PM

1. Does Aspect HD handle/accelerate the use of the SD recording mode that is found on the JY-HD10U too, and it´s high framerate?

2. Is this how it works?:
*************************************************
I connect the JY-HD10U to the firewire port, launch premiere 6.5/pro, select "capture movie", select my camera, "start recordig", and Aspect HD will make avi files in the 1280*720 res from the *.m2t input ?in realtime? from the camera..

Than I start editig, adding sounds etc. And when Iam all done I select export to tape and select my cam and aspect hd will record my new edited product back to the tape in *.m2t format ??
or I take the footage and make a downconersion of it to 720*576 and turn it in to a DVD.
*************************************************
Is that right? Does Aspect HD change the premiere program like a plug-in or how does it work?
Please explain! I really need to know this before I buy.
Is this a typical work process from start to finish David? (I hope you understand what I mean, you have to excuse my bad English)!!

John Eriksson · August 28th, 2003, 04:42 PM

Yes!
That sounds great! Maybe I will need all that realtime anyways!! /j

David Newman · August 28th, 2003, 05:16 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : 1. Does Aspect HD handle/accelerate the use of the SD recording mode that is found on the JY-HD10U too, and it´s high framerate?-->>>

No. The current version of Aspect HD is for 720p30 modes only (this is a limitation of Premiere 6.5 as doesn't support 60 fps timecode.) Future versions under Premiere Pro may support the 480p60 mode.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : 2. Is this how it works?: ... -->>>

We do not use the internal capture utility. We have a tool that is run independently to Premiere called CFCapture. This tool has multiple purposes: it captures *.m2t files (with scene detection), converts them to AVIs, and allows *.m2t export back to DVHS or the camera. Once material is captured and converted (today that is a two step processes, in about two weeks time this will be a one-step automatic process) the AVIs can imported into Premiere.

Note: The one step capture and conversion process, was not ready for the first shipped batch, but it will be a free download form the web site.

When Premiere launched, select the CineForm Aspect HD editing mode for real-time work. Then you are editing as you would with any accelerated product (except this time it is HD.)

When you are done, you can export your time-line to MPEG2-TS 720p30 for DVHS or Window Media 9 HD, or anamorphic DVD, all export options are available. Very flexible.

August 23rd, 2003, 02:28 PM	#1
Brad Hawkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 38	Aspect HD According to their website Aspect HD is now shipping and I would love to hear any reviews from those who have purchased the software. I am especially interested to find out if their codec will not only with Premiere, but with After Effects and other programs. Thanks in advance, Brad

August 27th, 2003, 08:18 AM	#3
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	Does Premiere Pro have native support for HD? Does Premiere Pro have native support for HD? And if so what do we need Aspect HD for?

August 28th, 2003, 01:15 PM	#7
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	Will I see my work on my telly while I work? Will aspect HD and Premiere send the scrubb HD signal back to the camera for downconverting and viewing directly on the tv while editing? Or will I edit using the small application window?

August 28th, 2003, 04:06 PM	#10
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	Yes but will it do "on the fly" encoding of HD -> TV? <<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Unfotunately encoding MPEG2-TS on the fly would kill real-time performance. Instead we recommend using a Matrox P750 or Parhelia to provide a real-time external monitor preview. Just what you need. -->>> Ok, thanks! But will it do "on the fly" downencoding of HD -> TV without the realtime preformance than anyways? By the way, is the realtime you are talking about the renering of fades, wipes and sutch effects? Because I don´t tink that I need that kind of stuff anyhow..

August 28th, 2003, 04:24 PM	#12
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Yes but will it do "on the fly" encoding of HD -> TV? <<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : Re: Maxtorx P750 ... Ok, thanks! But will it do "on the fly" downencoding of HD -> TV without the realtime preformance than anyways? -->>> Sorry I don't quite understand the question. HD->TV conversion for the Matrox cards happens in real-time while we are doing everything else. It is a feature of the Maxtrox cards. If the editing software don't do real-time the TV out will not be real-time. Is that what you were asking? <<<--By the way, is the realtime you are talking about the renering of fades, wipes and sutch effects? Because I don´t tink that I need that kind of stuff anyhow.. -->>> It is that and much more (the stuff you do need.) The flashy stuff like multi-channel motion video, title ovelays and 3D Page turns etc. is all real-time, but so are the necessary tools. Your bread and butter cuts, dissolves, color correction, and 3-point color balance controls are also completely real-time. Professional work using the JVC camera will require standard and 3-point color correction, that is typically very slow on non-real-time systems.

August 23rd, 2003, 03:44 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I also look forward to the reviews, in the meantime I can tell you more about the codec. CFHD -- the FOURCC code for CineForm HD Codec -- has three system freely components: A DirectShow Decoder and Encoder and a Video For Windows (VFW) Decoder. This means this codec can be used with any tools that supports DirectShow or VFW. So yes to After Effects and hundreds of other tools.

August 28th, 2003, 09:25 AM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Premiere Pro just like Premiere 6.5 supports HD resolutions in Video for Window mode (VFW), however this mode is not real-time, and Premiere includes no solution to convert the transport stream file to the required AVI format. Aspect HD is like a hardware accellerater card for your editing software -- like Matrox RT-X100 or a Pinancle Pro One -- yet these cards only accellerate DV video, Aspect HD accelerates 720p HD video (without plugin hardware.) So you can use Premiere 6.5/Pro alone to edit HD, making the editing experience a lot more labor intensive (all rendered) and requiring the use on uncompressed (or HUFYUV compressed) AVIs that use a very large amount of disk space (30 - 55MBytes per second.) Aspect HD files average around 8MBytes per second, with an image quality, and multi-generation abilities, way above MPEG2-TS. There is a whole lot of information about this on the CineForm web site.

August 28th, 2003, 11:31 AM	#5
Kevin A. Sturges Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	How does Vegas Video work with HD? Is the display realtime?

August 28th, 2003, 12:55 PM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Like Premiere, Vegas Video does natively support HD resolutions, however just like Premiere, Vegas it is un-accelerated. Vegas will get you a slow-ish preview (frames dropped) if you do much processing on the HD video, pacticularly for mulitple stream (2 or more.) i.e. a dissolve will not be fully real-time. There are mixed reports if it can handle transport streams directly, although it can handle MPEG-2 editing (although not in their trail version.) Video Vegas can't directly export as MPEG2-TS, so you can't output your final HD project to D-VHS without other (unknown) components. Aspect HD is accelerated (far more real-time) and can export to MPEG2-TS. Bascially Vegas can be made to work, but not as well as a solution designed for HD in real-time.

August 28th, 2003, 01:25 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Unfotunately encoding MPEG2-TS on the fly would kill real-time performance. Instead we recommend using a Matrox P750 or Parhelia to provide a real-time external monitor preview. Just what you need.

August 28th, 2003, 02:07 PM	#9
Chaim Bianco Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Philadelphia , PA Posts: 39	david, a few questions: i assume the aspectHD codec if YUV 4:2:2. if so, how is it that youve managed to get the data rate below that of the huffyUV, which from what i understand cuts very close to the bone of uncompressed datarates. is your codec lossless? are the dissolves/transitions performed in yuv or rgb colorspace? will aspectHD work on premiere 6.5 in Win2K? -- or is winXP it? can avi files encoded with your codec be read and written in other programs like aftereffects?

August 28th, 2003, 04:13 PM	#11
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Chaim, The CineForm HD Codec (CFHD) is visually lossless not mathematically lossless. Yes it is 4:2:2. We will provide mathematically lossless version for film and broadcast applications but felt this wasn't necessary for HDV given its MPEG-2 roots. All real-time effects and filters are performed in YUV colorspace. WinXP only. CFHD AVI files can be read into nearly all Windows based packages has it has both DirectShow and VFW decoding support. This includes After Effects. For writing CFHD AVI files, DirectShow support is required. After Effects doesn't have DirectShow exporting ability, so I would recommend using HUFFYUV or Uncompressed for export. The resulting file can be converted into CFHD again using Premiere.

August 28th, 2003, 04:39 PM	#13
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	Can it do SD too? And how does it work? Trying to describe a typical work process... 1. Does Aspect HD handle/accelerate the use of the SD recording mode that is found on the JY-HD10U too, and it´s high framerate? 2. Is this how it works?: ************************************************* I connect the JY-HD10U to the firewire port, launch premiere 6.5/pro, select "capture movie", select my camera, "start recordig", and Aspect HD will make avi files in the 1280720 res from the .m2t input ?in realtime? from the camera.. Than I start editig, adding sounds etc. And when Iam all done I select export to tape and select my cam and aspect hd will record my new edited product back to the tape in .m2t format ?? or I take the footage and make a downconersion of it to 720576 and turn it in to a DVD. ************************************************* Is that right? Does Aspect HD change the premiere program like a plug-in or how does it work? Please explain! I really need to know this before I buy. Is this a typical work process from start to finish David? (I hope you understand what I mean, you have to excuse my bad English)!!

August 28th, 2003, 04:42 PM	#14
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	Re: Re: Yes but will it do "on the fly" encoding of HD -> TV? Yes! That sounds great! Maybe I will need all that realtime anyways!! /j

August 28th, 2003, 05:16 PM	#15
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Can it do SD too? And how does it work? Trying to describe a typical work process... <<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : 1. Does Aspect HD handle/accelerate the use of the SD recording mode that is found on the JY-HD10U too, and it´s high framerate?-->>> No. The current version of Aspect HD is for 720p30 modes only (this is a limitation of Premiere 6.5 as doesn't support 60 fps timecode.) Future versions under Premiere Pro may support the 480p60 mode. <<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : 2. Is this how it works?: ... -->>> We do not use the internal capture utility. We have a tool that is run independently to Premiere called CFCapture. This tool has multiple purposes: it captures .m2t files (with scene detection), converts them to AVIs, and allows .m2t export back to DVHS or the camera. Once material is captured and converted (today that is a two step processes, in about two weeks time this will be a one-step automatic process) the AVIs can imported into Premiere. Note: The one step capture and conversion process, was not ready for the first shipped batch, but it will be a free download form the web site. When Premiere launched, select the CineForm Aspect HD editing mode for real-time work. Then you are editing as you would with any accelerated product (except this time it is HD.) When you are done, you can export your time-line to MPEG2-TS 720p30 for DVHS or Window Media 9 HD, or anamorphic DVD, all export options are available. Very flexible.