Aspect HD

David Newman · October 12th, 2003, 04:56 PM

You don't need to do all that. The Matrox card will already support full screen SXGA output of the overlay without having to drag the overlay onto another screen. This is how Applied Magic orginally set up their system, so I have seen it done (and it looks nice.) Although I haven't played on the Maxtox config much, so I can't help you there. I'm sure it is easy enough to work out.

Steve Mullen · October 13th, 2003, 12:03 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : You don't need to do all that. The Matrox card will already support full screen SXGA output of the overlay without having to drag the overlay onto another screen. This is how Applied Magic orginally set up their system, so I have seen it done (and it looks nice.) Although I haven't played on the Maxtox config much, so I can't help you there. I'm sure it is easy enough to work out. -->>>

Are you saying that IF I had connected my RGB HD projector to the second Matrox output instead of connecting an NTSC monitor to the third Matrox output -- I would have seen the overlay output in HD?

David, it may be easy to work out, but I've reviewed the Matrox board and I never saw anything about the overlay not being NTSC. This is important information that should, if true, be included with Aspect HD docs. Who would know HOW to do this?

I'll check with Matrox.

David Newman · October 13th, 2003, 09:43 AM

The overlay is not inherently NTSC, I only refer to the overlay as being the YUV channel on the video card -- it can be very large (bigger than HD -- although I haven't tried more than 1280x720 with the Matrox Parhelia.) I think there is a setting to copy to YUV overlay and send it to the SXGA/DVI output instead of the NTSC output. This has nothing to do with Aspect HD -- purely a function of the Matrox cards.

Steve Mullen · October 13th, 2003, 04:54 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : The overlay is not inherently NTSC, I only refer to the overlay as being the YUV channel on the video card -- it can be very large (bigger than HD -- although I haven't tried more than 1280x720 with the Matrox Parhelia.) There is a setting to copy to YUV overlay and send it to the SXGA/DVI output instead of the NTSC output. This has nothing to do with Aspect HD -- purely a function of the Matrox cards. -->>>

This really should have been fully documented as it's an essential part of using Aspect HD in the real world.

David Newman · October 13th, 2003, 05:38 PM

If we shipped the Matrox cards yes, but every end user will have a different setup. Basically if you set up your video card so that MediaPlayer (which will use the YUV overlay) outputs to an external display, Aspect HD will do the same. This would be explained in the manual that comes with the video card.

The P750/Parhelia manula is available here:
http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/user_manuals/parhelia_pseries/home.cfm

This thread has got a litttle off topic discussing a third party card that I have never set up (although I use one occasionally at the office.) We recommend it for it very easy and high quality NTSC preview, yet this is a tripple head card so I sure clever users can do some excellent things with it.

Looking over the Matrox manual myself I couldn't find out what is the maximum resolution it can directed via the overlay to an external monitor. Maybe its hardware is limited to SD resolution, therefore scaling whatever you sent to it.

Which cards out there have YPrPb outputs? Maybe one of those hold the key to what you are looking for.

Ken Hodson · October 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM

I just read this post and thought it might be relavent. It is a Matrox tech support posting, reposting:

""Premier Pro has no overlay support and as a result, it will not work with the DVDMax feature.
As for Premier 6.5, ONLY video clips in DV format are overlayed properly and make use of the DVDMax feature."

I hope this is wrong!
Ken

Steve Mullen · October 15th, 2003, 11:15 PM

Not good news about PPro!

However, the overlay does work with AspectHD's wavelet video. It ouputs letterboxed NTSC video.

The question we need answered from CineForm is if the overlay carries full rez 1280x720 video AND if the overlay can be output via an RGB/DVI connection.

Peter Richardson · October 16th, 2003, 02:18 PM

Hey everyone--So I'll probably be getting Aspect HD, but I need to confirm something. We currently have Premiere Pro, no 6.5, and of course Aspect is not compatible with Pro. If I purchase Aspect will they include 6.5, or will I have to purchase 6.5 as well? Thanks!

Peter

David Newman · October 16th, 2003, 02:36 PM

If you contact us directly we might have a solution that will work for you. Try salesinfo@cineform.com or give CineForm a call.

Peter Richardson · October 16th, 2003, 03:02 PM

Thanks David, I'll send an email, or call, or both. :)

Peter

David Newman · October 17th, 2003, 11:38 AM

Sorry I put the wrong email address (now corrected.) salesinfo@cineform.com should work.

Alex Raskin · October 17th, 2003, 04:47 PM

I use Matrox Parhelia card, and what I see is the following:

- Parhelia outputs Video Overlay signal via both S-Video *and* DVI connectors (S-Video is just another cable adapter on top of this card's 2nd DVI output);

- However quality of the overlay signal in either case seems to be SD as it is much softer than the original HD video.

In my setup, I have HD monitor as Second monitor that is fed by Parhelia's DVI output. (First monitor is 19" CRT traditional computer monitor.)

When I'm viewing video overlay signal on that HD monitor, the image is soft.

If I move the application's Preview window onto my Second (HD) monitor, then the image is super-sharp.

Now, not only Adobe Premiere/Pro does not produce overlay, but neither does AfterEffects.

To rectify this, Parhelia has special driver that you download for free from their web site.

Currently, it only supports AfterEffects, and produces the same output as if the program itself had video overlay feature.

Matrox promised the same driver for Premiere, but none is available as of this writing - bummer!

Now, as I said, to view my timeline in HD resolution, I stopped using the overlay, but rather I move the preview windows onto my Second, HD monitor.

Premiere Pro allows for the preview image to Fit into the window, so when I resize the preview window to fit my 1280x720 display, the internal picture resizes and fits accordingly. (Obviously, without overlay, I cannot use the whole 1280x720 area as part of it is lost to display the windows' borders.)

Question: how to Fit the preview inside the window in AfterEffects? It only seems to allow 100% and then 50% step, where 100% cuts the lower part of the image in the window, and 50% is too small to be useful.

Any ideas?

David Newman · October 17th, 2003, 05:31 PM

The Premiere Pro version for Aspect HD will have its own solution for supporting the Matrox overlay (for external monitor previews) as well as it works under Aspect HD for Premiere 6.5.

Steve Mullen · October 17th, 2003, 07:01 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin :

When I'm viewing video overlay signal on that HD monitor, the image is soft.

So that implies the overlay is NOT 1280x720.

To Adobe, what is the max rez of the Overlay?

The question for CineForm, what rez is CAN be sent to the Overlay?

And to Matrox, is the Overlay no matter HOW output, limited to NTSC rez?

Matrox promised the same driver for Premiere, but none is available as of this writing -- bummer!

Which implies PPro does support an Overlay, but that it is different enough that Matrox doesn't yet support it. Good!

But the same three questions apply to this NEW PPro Overlay.

How to Fit the preview inside the window in AfterEffects? It only seems to allow 100% and then 50% step, where 100% cuts the lower part of the image in the window, and 50% is too small to be useful. -->>>

I remember that from AE on a PC, but on my Mac the size is fully adjustable by its corner.

Why not post a question on the Matrox site?

Ken Hodson · October 17th, 2003, 07:11 PM

I asked this question @ MURC (Matrox users resource center) Desktop Video Forum ( A great place for nle in general, but esp. if it involves Matrox hardware)

http://forums.matroxusers.com/index.php?

Q-"What is the maximum resolution Parhelia can directed via the overlay to an external monitor? Is it hardware limited to SD resolution, therefore scaling whatever you set it to? Or can it do true 720p on external overlay?"

A-"I think that Parhelia's overlay surface is hw limited to 1600x1200 therefor it shouldn't have any problems displaying 1280x720.
G4x0 and G550 also had limitation regarding size of video displayed via DVDMax. Width of the video must be divisible with 16. Don't know if it still applies to Parhelia."

Alex, you might want to repost in that forum and see if you can get any answers. They know the Parhelia inside and out in that forum. Just don't mention VIA and you will be fine.
Ken

October 13th, 2003, 12:03 AM	#107
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : You don't need to do all that. The Matrox card will already support full screen SXGA output of the overlay without having to drag the overlay onto another screen. This is how Applied Magic orginally set up their system, so I have seen it done (and it looks nice.) Although I haven't played on the Maxtox config much, so I can't help you there. I'm sure it is easy enough to work out. -->>> Are you saying that IF I had connected my RGB HD projector to the second Matrox output instead of connecting an NTSC monitor to the third Matrox output -- I would have seen the overlay output in HD? David, it may be easy to work out, but I've reviewed the Matrox board and I never saw anything about the overlay not being NTSC. This is important information that should, if true, be included with Aspect HD docs. Who would know HOW to do this? I'll check with Matrox. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 13th, 2003, 04:54 PM	#109
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : The overlay is not inherently NTSC, I only refer to the overlay as being the YUV channel on the video card -- it can be very large (bigger than HD -- although I haven't tried more than 1280x720 with the Matrox Parhelia.) There is a setting to copy to YUV overlay and send it to the SXGA/DVI output instead of the NTSC output. This has nothing to do with Aspect HD -- purely a function of the Matrox cards. -->>> This really should have been fully documented as it's an essential part of using Aspect HD in the real world. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM	#111
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I just read this post and thought it might be relavent. It is a Matrox tech support posting, reposting: ""Premier Pro has no overlay support and as a result, it will not work with the DVDMax feature. As for Premier 6.5, ONLY video clips in DV format are overlayed properly and make use of the DVDMax feature." I hope this is wrong! Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

October 15th, 2003, 11:15 PM	#112
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Not good news about PPro! However, the overlay does work with AspectHD's wavelet video. It ouputs letterboxed NTSC video. The question we need answered from CineForm is if the overlay carries full rez 1280x720 video AND if the overlay can be output via an RGB/DVI connection. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 16th, 2003, 02:18 PM	#113
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	Regarding Aspect HD and Premiere Pro... Hey everyone--So I'll probably be getting Aspect HD, but I need to confirm something. We currently have Premiere Pro, no 6.5, and of course Aspect is not compatible with Pro. If I purchase Aspect will they include 6.5, or will I have to purchase 6.5 as well? Thanks! Peter

October 12th, 2003, 04:56 PM	#106
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You don't need to do all that. The Matrox card will already support full screen SXGA output of the overlay without having to drag the overlay onto another screen. This is how Applied Magic orginally set up their system, so I have seen it done (and it looks nice.) Although I haven't played on the Maxtox config much, so I can't help you there. I'm sure it is easy enough to work out.

October 13th, 2003, 09:43 AM	#108
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The overlay is not inherently NTSC, I only refer to the overlay as being the YUV channel on the video card -- it can be very large (bigger than HD -- although I haven't tried more than 1280x720 with the Matrox Parhelia.) I think there is a setting to copy to YUV overlay and send it to the SXGA/DVI output instead of the NTSC output. This has nothing to do with Aspect HD -- purely a function of the Matrox cards.

October 13th, 2003, 05:38 PM	#110
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	If we shipped the Matrox cards yes, but every end user will have a different setup. Basically if you set up your video card so that MediaPlayer (which will use the YUV overlay) outputs to an external display, Aspect HD will do the same. This would be explained in the manual that comes with the video card. The P750/Parhelia manula is available here: http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/user_manuals/parhelia_pseries/home.cfm This thread has got a litttle off topic discussing a third party card that I have never set up (although I use one occasionally at the office.) We recommend it for it very easy and high quality NTSC preview, yet this is a tripple head card so I sure clever users can do some excellent things with it. Looking over the Matrox manual myself I couldn't find out what is the maximum resolution it can directed via the overlay to an external monitor. Maybe its hardware is limited to SD resolution, therefore scaling whatever you sent to it. Which cards out there have YPrPb outputs? Maybe one of those hold the key to what you are looking for.

October 16th, 2003, 02:36 PM	#114
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	If you contact us directly we might have a solution that will work for you. Try salesinfo@cineform.com or give CineForm a call.

October 16th, 2003, 03:02 PM	#115
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	Thanks David, I'll send an email, or call, or both. :) Peter

October 17th, 2003, 11:38 AM	#116
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Sorry I put the wrong email address (now corrected.) salesinfo@cineform.com should work.

October 17th, 2003, 04:47 PM	#117
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	I use Matrox Parhelia card, and what I see is the following: - Parhelia outputs Video Overlay signal via both S-Video and DVI connectors (S-Video is just another cable adapter on top of this card's 2nd DVI output); - However quality of the overlay signal in either case seems to be SD as it is much softer than the original HD video. In my setup, I have HD monitor as Second monitor that is fed by Parhelia's DVI output. (First monitor is 19" CRT traditional computer monitor.) When I'm viewing video overlay signal on that HD monitor, the image is soft. If I move the application's Preview window onto my Second (HD) monitor, then the image is super-sharp. Now, not only Adobe Premiere/Pro does not produce overlay, but neither does AfterEffects. To rectify this, Parhelia has special driver that you download for free from their web site. Currently, it only supports AfterEffects, and produces the same output as if the program itself had video overlay feature. Matrox promised the same driver for Premiere, but none is available as of this writing - bummer! Now, as I said, to view my timeline in HD resolution, I stopped using the overlay, but rather I move the preview windows onto my Second, HD monitor. Premiere Pro allows for the preview image to Fit into the window, so when I resize the preview window to fit my 1280x720 display, the internal picture resizes and fits accordingly. (Obviously, without overlay, I cannot use the whole 1280x720 area as part of it is lost to display the windows' borders.) Question: how to Fit the preview inside the window in AfterEffects? It only seems to allow 100% and then 50% step, where 100% cuts the lower part of the image in the window, and 50% is too small to be useful. Any ideas?

October 17th, 2003, 05:31 PM	#118
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The Premiere Pro version for Aspect HD will have its own solution for supporting the Matrox overlay (for external monitor previews) as well as it works under Aspect HD for Premiere 6.5.

October 17th, 2003, 07:01 PM	#119
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : When I'm viewing video overlay signal on that HD monitor, the image is soft. So that implies the overlay is NOT 1280x720. To Adobe, what is the max rez of the Overlay? The question for CineForm, what rez is CAN be sent to the Overlay? And to Matrox, is the Overlay no matter HOW output, limited to NTSC rez? Matrox promised the same driver for Premiere, but none is available as of this writing -- bummer! Which implies PPro does support an Overlay, but that it is different enough that Matrox doesn't yet support it. Good! But the same three questions apply to this NEW PPro Overlay. How to Fit the preview inside the window in AfterEffects? It only seems to allow 100% and then 50% step, where 100% cuts the lower part of the image in the window, and 50% is too small to be useful. -->>> I remember that from AE on a PC, but on my Mac the size is fully adjustable by its corner. Why not post a question on the Matrox site? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 17th, 2003, 07:11 PM	#120
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I asked this question @ MURC (Matrox users resource center) Desktop Video Forum ( A great place for nle in general, but esp. if it involves Matrox hardware) http://forums.matroxusers.com/index.php? Q-"What is the maximum resolution Parhelia can directed via the overlay to an external monitor? Is it hardware limited to SD resolution, therefore scaling whatever you set it to? Or can it do true 720p on external overlay?" A-"I think that Parhelia's overlay surface is hw limited to 1600x1200 therefor it shouldn't have any problems displaying 1280x720. G4x0 and G550 also had limitation regarding size of video displayed via DVDMax. Width of the video must be divisible with 16. Don't know if it still applies to Parhelia." Alex, you might want to repost in that forum and see if you can get any answers. They know the Parhelia inside and out in that forum. Just don't mention VIA and you will be fine. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.