NVidia (finally) fixes their YUV Level bug. at DVinfo.net

David Newman · October 17th, 2008, 12:46 PM

It has been years that we have recommended ATI over NVidia as NVidia cards were incorrectly outputting YUV to the DVI displays (your desktop.) We use YUV surfaces for speed, and ATI and Matrox got the YUV to RGB conversions correct, so why not NVidia?

In the latest NVidia drivers, (I just installed 178.26 for my Quadro FX 1700) there is a control panel to restore the correct video levels for a computer display. You want Dynamic Range set to Full within the NVidia Control Panel.

Adam Gold · October 17th, 2008, 02:28 PM

Thanks for the update, David.

I just downloaded and installed the latest driver, but now I've lost full-screen playback of the program monitor on my second screen. Have they disabled overlay in this release? Do you know of a way to restore it? Or do I have to roll back to my last driver?

Thanks.

David Newman · October 17th, 2008, 02:32 PM

Not that I know of. They may have rest those settings, so you wioll need to set up the second display again.

Adam Gold · October 17th, 2008, 02:48 PM

No, the setting drop-downs are gone. In the last version we had to set up the two monitors as "Dualview" and select "Autodetect" to enable full screen playback to the second screen. None of the settings within Premiere had any effect.

Now the "Autodetect" drop-down is gone completely.

Do you have your systems set to do this, with the new driver, and if so, how?

Thanks...

Bill Ravens · October 17th, 2008, 02:53 PM

David...

WOOHOOooOOOO, thanx
working fine, here.

David Newman · October 17th, 2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

No, the setting drop-downs are gone. In the last version we had to set up the two monitors as "Dualview" and select "Autodetect" to enable full screen playback to the second screen. None of the settings within Premiere had any effect.

Now the "Autodetect" drop-down is gone completely.

Do you have your systems set to do this, with the new driver, and if so, how?

Thanks...

Dualview is still there on my system. But I think my NVidia is too new to support the full screen playback on the second screen (NVidia removed that feature on newer hardware GeForce8 and under Vista.)

Adam Gold · October 17th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Right, it's set up for dualview. But the setting for "Modify Full-screen video options" that had "Autodetect" as a dropdown within it is gone with the new driver.

I knew the newer GeForce cards did not support this, so that's why I got a Quadro 1500 instead, and am still using XP Pro.

Should I just bail on this nVidia card and get an ATI? I know you're generally video-card agnostic, but it there one you favor? I'm getting really frustrated with this issue...

David Newman · October 17th, 2008, 03:26 PM

Always favored ATI over NVidia, but primarily because of color accuracy.

Adam Gold · October 17th, 2008, 05:19 PM

Right, so the question remains, do you have any PCs with this driver and full-screen output to the second monitor working, and if so, how?

Sorry to hijack this into a well-documented issue, but this has been a problem for a while and you'd think there's be a solution by now, especially as this problem now seems to be spreading to other cards. Obviously not your fault, but we really trust and rely on you guys.

For me, the output to the second monitor in Full HDTV mode (not just a resized Premiere panel) is more important than the color issue, so I've rolled back to the last driver.

Finally, which ATI do you like? There are a million variations: AGP/PCI, Radeon HD Series, 2000, 3000, 4000....

David Newman · October 17th, 2008, 05:51 PM

Please file a support ticket with NVidia as the online help still say it is support, but the control panel don't expose the controls.

As for other cards, I like AJA Xena LHe, the only thing worth monitoring with.

Adam Gold · October 17th, 2008, 06:53 PM

Already done, thanks. Will let everyone know if there's a resolution, as I know this is an issue with more than a few folks, from prior threads...

Bill Ravens · October 18th, 2008, 06:59 AM

Not sure I understand the problem you guys are having. For one thing, the quadro card is the only card that works with Avid. Yes, you can fool avid into thinking most nvidia cards are a quadro card, but it's still an nvidia. Ati's definitely do not work with Media Composer. Having said that, I have two PCI express cards, a quadro and a 7800GS driving 3 monitors, one of which is an HDTV. I'm getting full rez on all three screens, so what am I missing? I did have to install the 178.24 driver twice for each card to get recognized and updated.

You have to set the resolution for each screen manually, there is no autodetect.

Adam Gold · October 18th, 2008, 03:17 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to belabor this, but...

The problem is that with the new driver, the Quadro cards now behave like the GeForce 8800 series, which is to say that when using Premiere with Aspect, there is no full-screen output to a second monitor during playback. The choice to manage this has been removed from the NVidia menus and the Premiere controls for this do nothing (i.e. "Enable Overlay Surface" doesn't do anything).

I don't believe any of us mentioned Avid, but glad to know it works there.

The "autodetect" drop-down I mentioned has nothing to do with resolution, but rather with output. In the Modify Full-Screen Video Options on the prior version, the NVidia control panel says "When watching video content, also show it full-screen on my:" and has a drop down. In my setup the only choice available was "autodetect." But with the new driver, the "Modify Full-screen video options" is gone so there's no way to do this.

But as I said, we filed a ticket with NVidia and we'll see what they say. In the meantime the old driver is working fine, sans the improved color handling that started this whole thread.

Note how this screen is different from the one David posted. This is from the earlier driver.

Bill Ravens · October 18th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Adam..

Thanx for explaining. I keep forgetting that Cineform has many more features in Premiere than I get with Avid.

Adam Gold · October 20th, 2008, 03:19 PM

Here's NVidia's official response:

Hello Adam
Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care

NVIDIA has discontinued Full Screen Video Mirror support from drivers after 162.65

XP Driver version 162.65 can be found at the following site:
ForceWare Release 162

This feature is no longer available in the NVIDIA Control Panel with current NVIDIA Drivers and will need to be implemented by the application developer.

The reasons for this are as follows:

1) Newer GPU’s support dual hardware overlays making software overlays redundant and difficult to maintain.
Application Developers would have to redevelop their software to support this function in their movie player.

2) Copy protection issues and potential liability from copyright holders. Not allowed by Protected Video Path Output Content Protection (PVP-OPM)

3) WinXP is being deprecated in favor of WinVista which is no longer supported due to the new Protected Video Path Output Content Protection (PVP-OPM) in Windows Vista

If you plan on upgrading to Vista, this feature is not available

Best regards
NVIDIA Customer Care

So it looks like we have to choose between Full-screen video and correct color. Bummer. Oh, well. At least we have an official answer, even if it isn't what I was hoping for.

October 17th, 2008, 12:46 PM	#1
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	NVidia (finally) fixes their YUV Level bug. It has been years that we have recommended ATI over NVidia as NVidia cards were incorrectly outputting YUV to the DVI displays (your desktop.) We use YUV surfaces for speed, and ATI and Matrox got the YUV to RGB conversions correct, so why not NVidia? In the latest NVidia drivers, (I just installed 178.26 for my Quadro FX 1700) there is a control panel to restore the correct video levels for a computer display. You want Dynamic Range set to Full within the NVidia Control Panel. Attached Thumbnails __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 17th, 2008, 02:32 PM	#3
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Not that I know of. They may have rest those settings, so you wioll need to set up the second display again. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 17th, 2008, 03:26 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Always favored ATI over NVidia, but primarily because of color accuracy. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 17th, 2008, 05:51 PM	#10
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Please file a support ticket with NVidia as the online help still say it is support, but the control panel don't expose the controls. As for other cards, I like AJA Xena LHe, the only thing worth monitoring with. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 18th, 2008, 03:17 PM	#13
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Sorry, didn't mean to belabor this, but... The problem is that with the new driver, the Quadro cards now behave like the GeForce 8800 series, which is to say that when using Premiere with Aspect, there is no full-screen output to a second monitor during playback. The choice to manage this has been removed from the NVidia menus and the Premiere controls for this do nothing (i.e. "Enable Overlay Surface" doesn't do anything). I don't believe any of us mentioned Avid, but glad to know it works there. The "autodetect" drop-down I mentioned has nothing to do with resolution, but rather with output. In the Modify Full-Screen Video Options on the prior version, the NVidia control panel says "When watching video content, also show it full-screen on my:" and has a drop down. In my setup the only choice available was "autodetect." But with the new driver, the "Modify Full-screen video options" is gone so there's no way to do this. But as I said, we filed a ticket with NVidia and we'll see what they say. In the meantime the old driver is working fine, sans the improved color handling that started this whole thread. Note how this screen is different from the one David posted. This is from the earlier driver. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Adam Gold; October 18th, 2008 at 03:55 PM.

October 17th, 2008, 02:28 PM	#2
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Thanks for the update, David. I just downloaded and installed the latest driver, but now I've lost full-screen playback of the program monitor on my second screen. Have they disabled overlay in this release? Do you know of a way to restore it? Or do I have to roll back to my last driver? Thanks.

October 17th, 2008, 02:48 PM	#4
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	No, the setting drop-downs are gone. In the last version we had to set up the two monitors as "Dualview" and select "Autodetect" to enable full screen playback to the second screen. None of the settings within Premiere had any effect. Now the "Autodetect" drop-down is gone completely. Do you have your systems set to do this, with the new driver, and if so, how? Thanks...

October 17th, 2008, 02:53 PM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	David... WOOHOOooOOOO, thanx working fine, here.

October 17th, 2008, 03:23 PM	#7
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Right, it's set up for dualview. But the setting for "Modify Full-screen video options" that had "Autodetect" as a dropdown within it is gone with the new driver. I knew the newer GeForce cards did not support this, so that's why I got a Quadro 1500 instead, and am still using XP Pro. Should I just bail on this nVidia card and get an ATI? I know you're generally video-card agnostic, but it there one you favor? I'm getting really frustrated with this issue...

October 17th, 2008, 05:19 PM	#9
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Right, so the question remains, do you have any PCs with this driver and full-screen output to the second monitor working, and if so, how? Sorry to hijack this into a well-documented issue, but this has been a problem for a while and you'd think there's be a solution by now, especially as this problem now seems to be spreading to other cards. Obviously not your fault, but we really trust and rely on you guys. For me, the output to the second monitor in Full HDTV mode (not just a resized Premiere panel) is more important than the color issue, so I've rolled back to the last driver. Finally, which ATI do you like? There are a million variations: AGP/PCI, Radeon HD Series, 2000, 3000, 4000....

October 17th, 2008, 06:53 PM	#11
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Already done, thanks. Will let everyone know if there's a resolution, as I know this is an issue with more than a few folks, from prior threads...

October 18th, 2008, 06:59 AM	#12
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Not sure I understand the problem you guys are having. For one thing, the quadro card is the only card that works with Avid. Yes, you can fool avid into thinking most nvidia cards are a quadro card, but it's still an nvidia. Ati's definitely do not work with Media Composer. Having said that, I have two PCI express cards, a quadro and a 7800GS driving 3 monitors, one of which is an HDTV. I'm getting full rez on all three screens, so what am I missing? I did have to install the 178.24 driver twice for each card to get recognized and updated. You have to set the resolution for each screen manually, there is no autodetect.

October 18th, 2008, 03:23 PM	#14
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Adam.. Thanx for explaining. I keep forgetting that Cineform has many more features in Premiere than I get with Avid.

October 20th, 2008, 03:19 PM	#15
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Here's NVidia's official response: Hello Adam Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care NVIDIA has discontinued Full Screen Video Mirror support from drivers after 162.65 XP Driver version 162.65 can be found at the following site: ForceWare Release 162 This feature is no longer available in the NVIDIA Control Panel with current NVIDIA Drivers and will need to be implemented by the application developer. The reasons for this are as follows: 1) Newer GPU’s support dual hardware overlays making software overlays redundant and difficult to maintain. Application Developers would have to redevelop their software to support this function in their movie player. 2) Copy protection issues and potential liability from copyright holders. Not allowed by Protected Video Path Output Content Protection (PVP-OPM) 3) WinXP is being deprecated in favor of WinVista which is no longer supported due to the new Protected Video Path Output Content Protection (PVP-OPM) in Windows Vista If you plan on upgrading to Vista, this feature is not available Best regards NVIDIA Customer Care So it looks like we have to choose between Full-screen video and correct color. Bummer. Oh, well. At least we have an official answer, even if it isn't what I was hoping for.