10bit Prospect HD seems to be 8bit only. at DVinfo.net

Desmond Sukotjo · October 9th, 2008, 06:06 AM

Hi.

I converted Sony EX1 clip .MP4 to CineForm Avi, using HDLink ProspectHD. Don't I suppose to get a 10bit Avi?? Why when I check the Cineform Avi file in windows file properties (that is select the file, right click, and choose properties), under Summary tab, it's still saying Video Sample Size 24bit? (or 8bit x 3 for RGB). Isn't it suppose to say 30bit?

I tried using After Effects, imported the Sony EX1 clip, then render out using Cineform Avi. Then I checked the windows file properties, it DOES say Video Sample Size 30bit.

So what is the correct workflow to edit 10bit (30bit RGB) in Premiere Pro CS3.

Thanks.

David Taylor · October 9th, 2008, 08:50 AM

Desmond, this is a Windows Explorer problem with AVI files. Being as there is no universal manner to represent extended precision in AVI files, Windows Explorer *assumes* the files are 8 bits. Not to worry, *all* CineForm files created with Prospect HD and Prospect 4K are extended (10/12 bit) precision, regardless of what Windows Explorer reports.

Desmond Sukotjo · October 9th, 2008, 08:17 PM

Thanks for the reply David Taylor.

But why is the Cineform avi files created in After Effects read as 10bit (30bit in Windows File Properties). But created in HDLink read as 8bit. If it is a Windows Explorer problem, I would think windows will read them all as 8bit regardless.

David Newman · October 9th, 2008, 09:35 PM

It is actually meaningless information for a compressed file, any number can appear in that field, it has no bearing on the data within. 24-bit doesn't even doesn't sense for most sources, like the EX1's 4:2:0 in uncompressed averages 12-bit per pixel (8-bit Luma(Y) and 8-bit U/V every forth pixel.) Even uncompressed YUV 4:2:2 10-bit averages only 20-bit per pixel. We store a compressed precision up to 48 bits per pixel, yet the AVI header will still say something else.

Desmond Sukotjo · October 9th, 2008, 09:58 PM

Is there any other software to prove that Cineform AVI out of Prospect HD is always 10bit?

David Newman · October 10th, 2008, 09:15 AM

You are missing the point. A compression presentation has an internal precision that is independent of the file wrapper (AVI or MOV.) Under Premiere Pro, After Effects, FCP and many QuickTime application we are ask for deeper than 8-bit and we have the precision to decode to 10bit and beyond. It is the CineForm decoder that does this.

David Taylor · October 10th, 2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmond Sukotjo

Is there any other software to prove that Cineform AVI out of Prospect HD is always 10bit?

Desmond, you can always do your own tests. Following is a Tech Note we published quite a while ago that demonstrates the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit precision. The technique we used to perform the tests should be easily reproducible by you. https://www.cineform.com/products/Te...ersus_8Bit.htm

October 9th, 2008, 06:06 AM	#1
Desmond Sukotjo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 88	10bit Prospect HD seems to be 8bit only. Hi. I converted Sony EX1 clip .MP4 to CineForm Avi, using HDLink ProspectHD. Don't I suppose to get a 10bit Avi?? Why when I check the Cineform Avi file in windows file properties (that is select the file, right click, and choose properties), under Summary tab, it's still saying Video Sample Size 24bit? (or 8bit x 3 for RGB). Isn't it suppose to say 30bit? I tried using After Effects, imported the Sony EX1 clip, then render out using Cineform Avi. Then I checked the windows file properties, it DOES say Video Sample Size 30bit. So what is the correct workflow to edit 10bit (30bit RGB) in Premiere Pro CS3. Thanks.

October 9th, 2008, 09:35 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It is actually meaningless information for a compressed file, any number can appear in that field, it has no bearing on the data within. 24-bit doesn't even doesn't sense for most sources, like the EX1's 4:2:0 in uncompressed averages 12-bit per pixel (8-bit Luma(Y) and 8-bit U/V every forth pixel.) Even uncompressed YUV 4:2:2 10-bit averages only 20-bit per pixel. We store a compressed precision up to 48 bits per pixel, yet the AVI header will still say something else. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 10th, 2008, 09:15 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You are missing the point. A compression presentation has an internal precision that is independent of the file wrapper (AVI or MOV.) Under Premiere Pro, After Effects, FCP and many QuickTime application we are ask for deeper than 8-bit and we have the precision to decode to 10bit and beyond. It is the CineForm decoder that does this. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 9th, 2008, 08:50 AM	#2
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Desmond, this is a Windows Explorer problem with AVI files. Being as there is no universal manner to represent extended precision in AVI files, Windows Explorer assumes the files are 8 bits. Not to worry, all CineForm files created with Prospect HD and Prospect 4K are extended (10/12 bit) precision, regardless of what Windows Explorer reports.

October 9th, 2008, 08:17 PM	#3
Desmond Sukotjo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 88	Thanks for the reply David Taylor. But why is the Cineform avi files created in After Effects read as 10bit (30bit in Windows File Properties). But created in HDLink read as 8bit. If it is a Windows Explorer problem, I would think windows will read them all as 8bit regardless.

October 9th, 2008, 09:58 PM	#5
Desmond Sukotjo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 88	Is there any other software to prove that Cineform AVI out of Prospect HD is always 10bit?