Cineform and Avid... What's in the Works?

Perrone Ford · February 14th, 2010, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

Perrone,

You may very well be corrcet, but I don't see how that's possible.

RAW is different from RGB and is also different from YUV. They are different ways of encoding an image.

HDMI (which I would be caputuring from) is YUV 4:2:2 8-bit, and Cineform's codec used to encode the signal is YUV 4:2:2 10-bit. There is no RAW in the equation, except for what initially comes off the camera's Bayer mask sensor. But the codec never gets to touch that b/c the camera internally converts it to YUV before it hits the HDMI port.

http://techblog.cineform.com/?p=1284

David Newman · February 14th, 2010, 10:57 AM

Perrone is correct. We handle all sources equally, RAW for not, all get the image development properties, and the calling application is never aware of the internal formatting.

Peter Moretti · April 13th, 2010, 02:20 AM

Sure you all are very busy. Just wondering if Media Composer 5 and Cineform have been tested together?

FWIU, MC5 is supposed to natively read QT files, regardless of format/codec.

David Taylor · April 13th, 2010, 08:14 AM

At CineForm we have not yet tested, but we have confirmation from beta testers of MC v5 that it plays great with CineForm files, including Active Metadata. We have a meeting with Avid later in the week and can provide more details afterwards.

Peter Moretti · April 20th, 2010, 03:15 AM

David, thanks for the update and just wondering if there is any new info.

David Taylor · April 20th, 2010, 08:10 AM

Peter, we don't have any big news updates. But a couple things:

1. In addition to the beta customer testing referenced below, Avid has done some of their own testing to confirm compatibility.

2. I got the sense from Avid at our NAB meeting that CineForm compatibility in MC was a heavily requested feature, so they seem motivated to make sure it works well. Avid has requested our help in testing through the remainder of time before v5 formally ships in June. We now have MC v5 licenses at CineForm and will begin testing shortly on both Win and Mac.

David Taylor · April 22nd, 2010, 01:35 PM

We have done preliminary testing of Neo3D with Media Composer v5 (on Windows) through the new QT interface. It all seems to work pretty well. Performance is reasonably good, and all the Active Metadata controls in First Light for image development and for 3D adjustments seem to work great. We tested both AVI and MOV files successfully.

We haven't tested on Mac yet - we'll get to this in the near future.

Peter Moretti · April 24th, 2010, 01:33 AM

That's amazing! Very good news. Thanks so much!

Jay Friesen · April 24th, 2010, 06:10 PM

I'm under an NDA but I'll just say you guys will be very happy with performance on a Mac.

Simon Zimmer · May 22nd, 2010, 10:03 PM

Hello,

I just bought MC 4 and have many cineform files. When I imported the cineform files into an Avid project, Avid converted them to the Avid Codec. I chose 220x since it is 10-bit. Everything works great but the files are quite large.

Will I lose a lot quality-wise if I go for a lower Avid Codec which is only 8-bit? What are other cineform users that use Avid Media Composer using as a format when they import cineform files?

Also, when MC 5 comes out, I understand cineform files will work fine thanks to the testing Cineform has done. But will it still require transcoding to an Avid codec?

Thanks,

Simon

Perrone Ford · May 22nd, 2010, 10:19 PM

DNxHD 185/175 and 110/90 are also 10bit. Give one of those a shot.

Simon Zimmer · May 23rd, 2010, 07:49 AM

Hi Perrone,

I think we talked a few months ago about Avid. I almost had gone to Avid back in January but didn't do it.

Now I am on board with Avid. I am working on the trial version right now; waiting for my Product Sutie box to come from B&H Photo. I am picking Avid up much quicker the second time around. I love it. And it has not crashed once unlike my experience with PPCS5.

I did not realize that the DNxHD 185/175 and 110/90 are 10 bit also. That should help regarding file sizes of the imported videos created.

Thanks for the information.

Simon

David Newman · May 23rd, 2010, 10:29 AM

Only the 220/175 datarates optionally support 10-bit. DNxHD codec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In MC5, no transcoding from CineForm to DNxHD is required, plus you can use FirstLight.

Simon Zimmer · May 23rd, 2010, 04:15 PM

Really?

No more transcoding? Wow! That is awesome.

Thanks for the information David.

I can't wait for the 10th of June.

:)

Peter Arnold · May 24th, 2010, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Only the 220/175 datarates optionally support 10-bit.

Hi David

That's only for NTSC Framerates like 29.97. In PAL-Land 185x at 25fps is perfectly 10bit

Page 9 at http://www.avid.com/static/resources...ions/DNxHD.pdf

Peter

February 14th, 2010, 10:57 AM	#32
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Perrone is correct. We handle all sources equally, RAW for not, all get the image development properties, and the calling application is never aware of the internal formatting. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 13th, 2010, 02:20 AM	#33
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Sure you all are very busy. Just wondering if Media Composer 5 and Cineform have been tested together? FWIU, MC5 is supposed to natively read QT files, regardless of format/codec. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

April 20th, 2010, 03:15 AM	#35
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	David, thanks for the update and just wondering if there is any new info. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

April 22nd, 2010, 01:35 PM	#37
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Initial Avid testing - thumbs up! We have done preliminary testing of Neo3D with Media Composer v5 (on Windows) through the new QT interface. It all seems to work pretty well. Performance is reasonably good, and all the Active Metadata controls in First Light for image development and for 3D adjustments seem to work great. We tested both AVI and MOV files successfully. We haven't tested on Mac yet - we'll get to this in the near future.

April 24th, 2010, 01:33 AM	#38
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	That's amazing! Very good news. Thanks so much! __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

April 13th, 2010, 08:14 AM	#34
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	At CineForm we have not yet tested, but we have confirmation from beta testers of MC v5 that it plays great with CineForm files, including Active Metadata. We have a meeting with Avid later in the week and can provide more details afterwards.

April 20th, 2010, 08:10 AM	#36
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Peter, we don't have any big news updates. But a couple things: 1. In addition to the beta customer testing referenced below, Avid has done some of their own testing to confirm compatibility. 2. I got the sense from Avid at our NAB meeting that CineForm compatibility in MC was a heavily requested feature, so they seem motivated to make sure it works well. Avid has requested our help in testing through the remainder of time before v5 formally ships in June. We now have MC v5 licenses at CineForm and will begin testing shortly on both Win and Mac.

April 24th, 2010, 06:10 PM	#39
Jay Friesen New Boot Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 7	I'm under an NDA but I'll just say you guys will be very happy with performance on a Mac. __________________ ~ JR \| Non-Profit Media and Film Producer Nuendo, Avid, Adobe, Mac, Cineform, KRK, RME, Sony, AT, Matrox, CalDigit, etc., etc.

May 22nd, 2010, 10:03 PM	#40
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	MC 4/5 and Cineform files: Hello, I just bought MC 4 and have many cineform files. When I imported the cineform files into an Avid project, Avid converted them to the Avid Codec. I chose 220x since it is 10-bit. Everything works great but the files are quite large. Will I lose a lot quality-wise if I go for a lower Avid Codec which is only 8-bit? What are other cineform users that use Avid Media Composer using as a format when they import cineform files? Also, when MC 5 comes out, I understand cineform files will work fine thanks to the testing Cineform has done. But will it still require transcoding to an Avid codec? Thanks, Simon

May 22nd, 2010, 10:19 PM	#41
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	DNxHD 185/175 and 110/90 are also 10bit. Give one of those a shot. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

May 23rd, 2010, 07:49 AM	#42
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	Hi Perrone, I think we talked a few months ago about Avid. I almost had gone to Avid back in January but didn't do it. Now I am on board with Avid. I am working on the trial version right now; waiting for my Product Sutie box to come from B&H Photo. I am picking Avid up much quicker the second time around. I love it. And it has not crashed once unlike my experience with PPCS5. I did not realize that the DNxHD 185/175 and 110/90 are 10 bit also. That should help regarding file sizes of the imported videos created. Thanks for the information. Simon

May 23rd, 2010, 10:29 AM	#43
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Only the 220/175 datarates optionally support 10-bit. DNxHD codec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In MC5, no transcoding from CineForm to DNxHD is required, plus you can use FirstLight. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

May 23rd, 2010, 04:15 PM	#44
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	Cineform: Really? No more transcoding? Wow! That is awesome. Thanks for the information David. I can't wait for the 10th of June. :)