Cineform & FCP Color at DVinfo.net

Brendan Pyatt · September 18th, 2008, 12:11 PM

Hi,
I have alot of work in captured on a pc using the Cineform codec from various Sony HDV cams.

I would like to work on them on a Mac using FCP Studio 2 and its Color application.

I could not send the files to Color and after some reading I found that Cineform codec is not supported in Color.

What should I do? I tried batch exporting a clip from FCP with Apple Prores but it looks washed out compared with the original Cineform codec.

I am sure others have encountered this problem but I searched and could not find an answer.

thanks.

David Newman · September 18th, 2008, 01:19 PM

Washed Out = FCP/QT Gamma issues. While FCP render with render from CineForm to ProRES with out issue, you may have issues with the way you are batching the images. To preserve quality and gamma with recommend the 32-bit float pixel format for such conversions.

Brendan Pyatt · September 18th, 2008, 02:40 PM

hi,
I beleive I am exporting using 32 bit float.
The thing is that clip with cineform is more 'contrasty' whereas the prores clip has less contrast.
FCP is telling me that is converting cineform to prores without recompessing. Which I don't really beleive.

David Newman · September 18th, 2008, 04:03 PM

I'm not on the Mac side of things, but I do agree the "cineform to prores without recompessing" is wrong. If you use a CineForm configured sequence and export to PRoRES you shouldn't see any color or gamma change, those changed only occur if 8-bit RGB is used (which Mac offer assume a wrong 1.8 gamma.) If you submit a trouble ticket, a Mac based engineer will try to offer pointers. Although this is the sort of question ideal for the forum, so anyone please jump in.

Brendan Pyatt · September 18th, 2008, 04:07 PM

Thanks.

I assume that alot of users of Cineform and FCP would want to use Color so how do you get a clip based on the Cineform codec into Color?

Brendan Pyatt · September 18th, 2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

(which Mac offer assume a wrong 1.8 gamma.)

What gamma should be used?

David Newman · September 18th, 2008, 04:32 PM

Video gamma is 2.2. The use of Color is any issue until they get the bugs out and make it support generic Quicktime codec. CineForm customers use anything else, MagicBullet, AE, SpeedGrade, whatever supports Quicktime codecs.

Brendan Pyatt · September 18th, 2008, 05:33 PM

Yeh but that means: Buying Cineform codec, buying FCP and then buying say Magic Bullet....

If i had simply captured in FCP to Prores in the first place I would have had none of these issues and saved money. Whilst in theory the Cineform codec may offer advantages in this case it is just causing me a headache.

I can't believe there is not a decent method for converting Cineform clips so Color can use them.

David Taylor · September 18th, 2008, 06:01 PM

Brendan, we have "yelled" at Apple about this. I suggest you do too. The problem is that Color does not use QuickTime for codec support. Any codec that is supported is literally compiled in.

In fairness Apple has acknowledged the problem, but they didn't commit to when it would be fixed. We brought it to their attention over a year ago.

September 18th, 2008, 12:11 PM	#1
Brendan Pyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 165	Cineform & FCP Color Hi, I have alot of work in captured on a pc using the Cineform codec from various Sony HDV cams. I would like to work on them on a Mac using FCP Studio 2 and its Color application. I could not send the files to Color and after some reading I found that Cineform codec is not supported in Color. What should I do? I tried batch exporting a clip from FCP with Apple Prores but it looks washed out compared with the original Cineform codec. I am sure others have encountered this problem but I searched and could not find an answer. thanks.

September 18th, 2008, 01:19 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Washed Out = FCP/QT Gamma issues. While FCP render with render from CineForm to ProRES with out issue, you may have issues with the way you are batching the images. To preserve quality and gamma with recommend the 32-bit float pixel format for such conversions. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

September 18th, 2008, 04:03 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I'm not on the Mac side of things, but I do agree the "cineform to prores without recompessing" is wrong. If you use a CineForm configured sequence and export to PRoRES you shouldn't see any color or gamma change, those changed only occur if 8-bit RGB is used (which Mac offer assume a wrong 1.8 gamma.) If you submit a trouble ticket, a Mac based engineer will try to offer pointers. Although this is the sort of question ideal for the forum, so anyone please jump in. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

September 18th, 2008, 04:32 PM	#7
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Video gamma is 2.2. The use of Color is any issue until they get the bugs out and make it support generic Quicktime codec. CineForm customers use anything else, MagicBullet, AE, SpeedGrade, whatever supports Quicktime codecs. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

September 18th, 2008, 02:40 PM	#3
Brendan Pyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 165	hi, I beleive I am exporting using 32 bit float. The thing is that clip with cineform is more 'contrasty' whereas the prores clip has less contrast. FCP is telling me that is converting cineform to prores without recompessing. Which I don't really beleive.

September 18th, 2008, 04:07 PM	#5
Brendan Pyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 165	Thanks. I assume that alot of users of Cineform and FCP would want to use Color so how do you get a clip based on the Cineform codec into Color?

September 18th, 2008, 05:33 PM	#8
Brendan Pyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 165	Yeh but that means: Buying Cineform codec, buying FCP and then buying say Magic Bullet.... If i had simply captured in FCP to Prores in the first place I would have had none of these issues and saved money. Whilst in theory the Cineform codec may offer advantages in this case it is just causing me a headache. I can't believe there is not a decent method for converting Cineform clips so Color can use them.

September 18th, 2008, 06:01 PM	#9
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Brendan, we have "yelled" at Apple about this. I suggest you do too. The problem is that Color does not use QuickTime for codec support. Any codec that is supported is literally compiled in. In fairness Apple has acknowledged the problem, but they didn't commit to when it would be fixed. We brought it to their attention over a year ago.