Canon 5D MKII & Cineform at DVinfo.net

Jay Bloomfield · September 18th, 2008, 10:34 AM

Canon just announced their new Canon 5D DSLR, which is capable of shooting video:

Canon EOS 5D Mark II: 21MP and HD movies: Digital Photography Review

My question is, the 5D shoots 1080p, with an apparent (from the specs that have been published so far) frame rate of 30 fps, not 29.97 fps. The files are MOV (Quicktime 1080p H.264; 38.6 Mbits/sec). Assuming the frame rate is really 30 fps, will NEO HD and HDLink be able to convert these files to a Cineform AVI with a frame rate of 29.97 fps without creating some messy resampling artifacts?

I know at this point, the question is somewhat hypothetical, since few people have a new 5D MKII in hand to test. On the surface, this DSLR looks like everything that the Nikon D90 was supposed to be.

David Newman · September 18th, 2008, 10:42 AM

To convert 30.0fps to 29.97p using the Rate Change (24.0 to 23.976), it produces the same -0.1% slow down required.

David Taylor · September 18th, 2008, 02:01 PM

Jay, we'll have to see how Canon does with rolling shutter problems. But this is a sequence somebody captured and posted with the D90 which was recently announced: http://s477.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=DSC_0012.flv

Jay Bloomfield · September 18th, 2008, 05:10 PM

Thanks, That's pretty clever (EDIT: The frame rate idea). I saw a bunch of those "rolling shutter" bad examples posted for the Nikon D90. That scared me off. The D90 is a lot less expensive than the Canon D5 MKII, so it's audience may be different. None of the sample D5 videos that have been posted online so far seem to show rolling shutter problems. I'm sure if they are reproducible, someone will find them.

Jay Bloomfield · February 16th, 2009, 08:20 PM

I bumped this thread, because some people are now saying that even though the frame rate for 5D2 MOV files is reported by QT as 30.00 fps, it is actually 29.97 fps and the information in the MOV header is wrong.

Yes? No?

David Newman · February 16th, 2009, 09:04 PM

Neo Scene 1.1 converts Canon 5D Mk-II at 29.97fps, so it is not an issue for CineForm users. We will be rolling these changes in NEO and Prospect HD/4K.

Yang Wen · February 17th, 2009, 08:42 PM

So transcoded 5D2 footage will be slightly slower after cineform? How does this affect audio sync?

Jay Bloomfield · February 17th, 2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Wen

So transcoded 5D2 footage will be slightly slower after cineform? How does this affect audio sync?

If the 5D2 MOV files are really 29.97 fps (30p NTSC), which a lot of people believe them to be, then NEO Scene will not do any rate conversion to them at all.

As an aside, I finally managed to duplicate what was documented by someone else, in the link I posted previously. The link details how someone shot with both the 5D2 and another NTSC 30p camcorder and when he tried to sync them properly, he discovered that the 5D2 files were really not an even 30.00 fps. By using Cinema Tools, he altered the metadata in the 5D2 MOV file, so that the frame rate was read by software as 29.97 fps. Then the two sources were synchronized perfectly.

Unfortunately, working on a PC, I had to use a hex editor to manually change the atoms in the MOV file metadata, but I did get QT Player & several NLEs to think that the MOV file was 29.97 fps.

September 18th, 2008, 10:34 AM	#1
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	Canon 5D MKII & Cineform Canon just announced their new Canon 5D DSLR, which is capable of shooting video: Canon EOS 5D Mark II: 21MP and HD movies: Digital Photography Review My question is, the 5D shoots 1080p, with an apparent (from the specs that have been published so far) frame rate of 30 fps, not 29.97 fps. The files are MOV (Quicktime 1080p H.264; 38.6 Mbits/sec). Assuming the frame rate is really 30 fps, will NEO HD and HDLink be able to convert these files to a Cineform AVI with a frame rate of 29.97 fps without creating some messy resampling artifacts? I know at this point, the question is somewhat hypothetical, since few people have a new 5D MKII in hand to test. On the surface, this DSLR looks like everything that the Nikon D90 was supposed to be.

September 18th, 2008, 10:42 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	To convert 30.0fps to 29.97p using the Rate Change (24.0 to 23.976), it produces the same -0.1% slow down required. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

September 18th, 2008, 05:10 PM	#4
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	Thanks, That's pretty clever (EDIT: The frame rate idea). I saw a bunch of those "rolling shutter" bad examples posted for the Nikon D90. That scared me off. The D90 is a lot less expensive than the Canon D5 MKII, so it's audience may be different. None of the sample D5 videos that have been posted online so far seem to show rolling shutter problems. I'm sure if they are reproducible, someone will find them. Last edited by Jay Bloomfield; September 18th, 2008 at 06:04 PM. Reason: unclear grammatically

February 16th, 2009, 09:04 PM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Neo Scene 1.1 converts Canon 5D Mk-II at 29.97fps, so it is not an issue for CineForm users. We will be rolling these changes in NEO and Prospect HD/4K. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

September 18th, 2008, 02:01 PM	#3
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Jay, we'll have to see how Canon does with rolling shutter problems. But this is a sequence somebody captured and posted with the D90 which was recently announced: http://s477.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=DSC_0012.flv

February 16th, 2009, 08:20 PM	#5
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	I bumped this thread, because some people are now saying that even though the frame rate for 5D2 MOV files is reported by QT as 30.00 fps, it is actually 29.97 fps and the information in the MOV header is wrong. Yes? No?

February 17th, 2009, 08:42 PM	#7
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	So transcoded 5D2 footage will be slightly slower after cineform? How does this affect audio sync?