Capture using Aspect HD (PPCS3) - render in AECS3 with cineform codec bad practice? at DVinfo.net

Simon Zimmer · June 25th, 2008, 04:52 AM

Hello,

I am trying to figure out if this is BAD practice.

I capture my video from my HV20 camera using Aspect HD (preset 60i) in PPCS3. I then import the .avi clip to AECS3. Add some effects, etc. and then render using cineform codec and then reinsert it in PPCS3 to be exported to DVD mpeg2.

Do I lose image quality because of this workflow?

Also since my final output is DVD for a regular TV, should I keep it interlaced in AECS3 and PPCS3 the whole time?

Thanks,

Simon

Richard Leadbetter · June 25th, 2008, 08:34 AM

You do lose an absolutely tiny amount of quality. Using your workflow your final encoding is based on a second generation export. Exporting the original timeline bases the DVD encoding on the first generation clips.

However, first of all, CineForm works incredibly well moving from one generation to the next. Secondly, the drop in quality from HD to DVD is such that even if you did export straight from the timeline, I really don't think you'll be able to see the difference.

FWIW I do the same as you - export to a CineForm AVI and encode from that. However, I do so because I have more faith in the quality of final asset encoders outside of Premiere Pro than I do in the ones supplied.

Simon Zimmer · June 25th, 2008, 08:40 AM

Hello,

That makes me feel better. ;)

Small amount of quality loss I can live with.

Thanks for your input.

Good day.

Simon

Richard Leadbetter · June 25th, 2008, 10:20 AM

There is nothing to stop you exporting your final project as an uncompressed AVI or else using a lossless codec such as Huffyuv and then bringing that back to the timeline. You could then compare that to doing the same with your CineForm AVI and then seeing what the difference is. My guess is virtually nothing.

Why are you actually bringing back an export into the timeline any way?

Simon Zimmer · June 25th, 2008, 06:07 PM

Hello,

It is actually not an export, I begin with cineform.avi from my captured video.

Then I want to use AEcs3 to do some effects on the video (cineform .avi) and then my final movie is being made in PPCS3.

I don't have to render it in AECS3. I could just insert it (AECS3 project file) into PPCS3 but then I would need to render it in PPCS3 to see it in real-time. If the AECS3 project is rendered to the cineform codec, I can insert it into PPCS3 and don't need to render it to play it in real-time. Does this make sense?

If you have a better workflow, I am open to new ideas.

Thanks,

Simon

David Taylor · June 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM

FWIW, CineForm compression quality exceeds that of the respected and venerable HDCam SR. Hollywood trusts HDCam SR for moving their files around, so you'll be in excellent shape with CineForm files as your transport. We've done these comparative tests numerous times, including with major Hollywood studios and post facilities: https://www.cineform.com/technology/...tyAnalysis.htm

June 25th, 2008, 04:52 AM	#1
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	Capture using Aspect HD (PPCS3) - render in AECS3 with cineform codec bad practice? Hello, I am trying to figure out if this is BAD practice. I capture my video from my HV20 camera using Aspect HD (preset 60i) in PPCS3. I then import the .avi clip to AECS3. Add some effects, etc. and then render using cineform codec and then reinsert it in PPCS3 to be exported to DVD mpeg2. Do I lose image quality because of this workflow? Also since my final output is DVD for a regular TV, should I keep it interlaced in AECS3 and PPCS3 the whole time? Thanks, Simon

June 25th, 2008, 08:34 AM	#2
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	You do lose an absolutely tiny amount of quality. Using your workflow your final encoding is based on a second generation export. Exporting the original timeline bases the DVD encoding on the first generation clips. However, first of all, CineForm works incredibly well moving from one generation to the next. Secondly, the drop in quality from HD to DVD is such that even if you did export straight from the timeline, I really don't think you'll be able to see the difference. FWIW I do the same as you - export to a CineForm AVI and encode from that. However, I do so because I have more faith in the quality of final asset encoders outside of Premiere Pro than I do in the ones supplied. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

June 25th, 2008, 10:20 AM	#4
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	There is nothing to stop you exporting your final project as an uncompressed AVI or else using a lossless codec such as Huffyuv and then bringing that back to the timeline. You could then compare that to doing the same with your CineForm AVI and then seeing what the difference is. My guess is virtually nothing. Why are you actually bringing back an export into the timeline any way? __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

June 25th, 2008, 08:40 AM	#3
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	Hello, That makes me feel better. ;) Small amount of quality loss I can live with. Thanks for your input. Good day. Simon

June 25th, 2008, 06:07 PM	#5
Simon Zimmer Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Easton, Maryland Posts: 497	Hello, It is actually not an export, I begin with cineform.avi from my captured video. Then I want to use AEcs3 to do some effects on the video (cineform .avi) and then my final movie is being made in PPCS3. I don't have to render it in AECS3. I could just insert it (AECS3 project file) into PPCS3 but then I would need to render it in PPCS3 to see it in real-time. If the AECS3 project is rendered to the cineform codec, I can insert it into PPCS3 and don't need to render it to play it in real-time. Does this make sense? If you have a better workflow, I am open to new ideas. Thanks, Simon

June 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM	#6
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	FWIW, CineForm compression quality exceeds that of the respected and venerable HDCam SR. Hollywood trusts HDCam SR for moving their files around, so you'll be in excellent shape with CineForm files as your transport. We've done these comparative tests numerous times, including with major Hollywood studios and post facilities: https://www.cineform.com/technology/...tyAnalysis.htm