Magma + Intensity Pro + Laptop: which laptop?

Henry Olonga · May 31st, 2008, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

I just arised a sneaking suspicion that NTSC 60i will be harder to encode than PAL 50i on a Laptop. Maybe the wait for lower priced Penryn Quad-cores should be a good one.

Jack.Cannot alleviate the suspicion for you I am afraid.All I can say is my laptop flies with Cineform up to Film Scan two which is processor intensive and it has room to breathe.You may have to ask Cineform whether it takes that much more to encode 60i.You can wait I guess but I need to shoot now.The Cineform recorder is coming,Convergent Designs XDR,so is Scarlet as is Nanoflash and in a few months perhaps it would have been better to have waited.From my perspective if I can get it to work now and it can earn me money now...well - you know the rest.

Henry Olonga · May 31st, 2008, 04:36 AM

Some more footage from yesterday.The swan at the beginning just jumps at you in full res on my Bravia full HD monitor.I think the expense and effort of HDMI is worth it.

http://www.vimeo.com/1095616

And I have also Added a zipped torrent that includes 2.1 gigabytes of unedited Full HD 1920 X 1080 files for your critical analysis.Let me know what you think

Jack Zhang · May 31st, 2008, 12:02 PM

You can still encode to Vimeo in 1920x1080 and it will downscale the web HD version, but your original WMV will remain untouched at 1920 and free to be downloaded. I don't have Cineform so can you re-upload to Vimeo a 1080p version? (In video options, there is a "replace file" option.)

Alex Raskin · May 31st, 2008, 03:40 PM

Jack, Cineform provides *free* player that plays out any Cineform-encoded file, as I understand.

Jack Zhang · May 31st, 2008, 06:36 PM

Yes, but I do not wish to register any information to download it. I expect to download a file and simply play it.

Henry Olonga · June 2nd, 2008, 02:25 AM

I am sure that Vimeo does only 1280 X 720 and in my mind there is an obvious difference compared to the pixel for pixel 1920 X 1080.How obvious is subjective but the compression to other formats from cineform loses some quality as well.
To register for Cineform player is relatively simple.But if it hassles you and we can find an alternative to host the files in Full res - let me know.

I thought that the torrent route is best as the files do not get transcoded in any way.Can do Vimeo downscaled but that won't give you a clear indication of the performance of the codec in certain circumstances.I have 11 files form the other day 4 at the sea with waves.And the swans swimming around which are really good at full res.Waves I am sure would test most codecs to the hilt and when I have downscaled to other codecs to upload the quality is greatly diminished and the usual artifacts appear.I also have some leaves - a different clip from the other day and the detail is very good.
Perhaps I shall upload the unedited clips to Vimeo.

Alex Raskin · June 2nd, 2008, 07:02 AM

By testing, I found that *intense traffic* taxes the codecs more than anything else I could throw at the cameras, including waterfalls etc.

Just make sure you're zoomed in so the car's length fills the frame.

Manhattan street corner traffic does it. Cars moving in different directions; people going back and forth; multi-directional movements with variable speeds within a frame.

V1U's MPEG25 (? I think) codec falls apart with the usual blocky artifacts very quickly on this kind of footage.

Eric Larson · June 2nd, 2008, 11:23 AM

A more elegant and cheaper solution to the expensive Magma is if you get a Thinkpad laptop (I just got a T61p top of the line for $1300 (T9300 2.5 and Quadro FX 570m), one of the few laptops "certfied" by Avid) is the Advanced Dock that lenovo makes for their laptops.

http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPa.../dp/B000BTN1EC

It can house a PCI express card like intensity and has ultrabay slot for popping in a 2nd hard drive.
I haven't actually tried it myself but I'm serioiusly considering it. And since the laptop locks into the dock it would be more "portable" than carrying around the Magma, a second hard drive, power cables, etc.

Alex Raskin · June 2nd, 2008, 11:44 AM

Eric, if this works, it'd really be way better than Magma.

Interestingly, it still would be about the same size and weight as my current setup with microATX mobo + Core2Duo 3Ghz in the slim InWin case. (and it seems like my cost is significantly lower, too.)

Granted, your setup has laptop screen while mine has none, relying on the external monitor instead.

But I still would need a large screen to monitor the camera focus.

Eric Larson · June 2nd, 2008, 11:54 AM

Alex you may not need an external monitor, the resolution on the Lenovo T61p is 1920x1200 (this is what sold me on the laptop), granted it is only a 15.4 inch screen.

Alex Raskin · June 2nd, 2008, 12:04 PM

How would I feed that laptop with the HDMI signal out of camera?

My current setup is a HDTV that accepts both HDMI signal from Intensity's HDMI Out loop; and VGA computer signal on the other port, to display PC screen. Both are displayed full-screen. Since it's a TV, it removes 2:3 pulldown from my HDMI signal on-the-fly.

Current widescreen monitor size is 20". I'd actually want a Larger, not smaller screen, since there are practical shooting situations when you need to see it from across the room etc.; and even at short distance, it'd be better to have a 24" monitor with pixel-for-pixel mapping. (Looking for that now actually.)

Jack Zhang · June 2nd, 2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Olonga

I am sure that Vimeo does only 1280 X 720 and in my mind there is an obvious difference compared to the pixel for pixel 1920 X 1080.How obvious is subjective but the compression to other formats from cineform loses some quality as well.
To register for Cineform player is relatively simple.But if it hassles you and we can find an alternative to host the files in Full res - let me know.

I thought that the torrent route is best as the files do not get transcoded in any way.Can do Vimeo downscaled but that won't give you a clear indication of the performance of the codec in certain circumstances.I have 11 files form the other day 4 at the sea with waves.And the swans swimming around which are really good at full res.Waves I am sure would test most codecs to the hilt and when I have downscaled to other codecs to upload the quality is greatly diminished and the usual artifacts appear.I also have some leaves - a different clip from the other day and the detail is very good.
Perhaps I shall upload the unedited clips to Vimeo.

You do not need to downscale. You can upload a 1920x1080 WMV and the web player will process and downscale to 720p and the original 1920x1080 WMV will be available for download untouched. You could also try 2-pass VBR encoding to increase quality while keeping filesizes low. Also keep in mind that 1080 needs at a minimum of 8Mbps and the optimum is in the tens of megabits. If you insist on 720 for Vimeo, can you re-encode the same video in 1080 WMV and ask Chris Hurd to host it here?

Here's one of my 1920x1080 uploads to Vimeo: http://www.vimeo.com/790103
As you can see, it is 720 on the web player and you can still download the original full 1920x1080 version.

Henry Olonga · June 3rd, 2008, 02:49 PM

Jack you are a legend.Will do that in the next couple days then.I also own the HC7 and it does take a pretty pic - looking at your vids.British Columbia is very beautiful.Best to you.
Henry

Jack Zhang · June 11th, 2008, 03:46 AM

I just saw your most recent video and I still see you're using a bitrate below 8mbps, Vegas supports direct 2-pass WMV encoding at either quality or bitrate medians. No external process is required to create 2-pass, both passes occur in the same render.

Also, as I said on Vimeo, try to find a high-end de-interlacer like Magic Bullet before editing to process into progressive files to edit with.

Alex Raskin · June 11th, 2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

Itry to find a high-end de-interlacer like Magic Bullet before editing to process into progressive files to edit with.

...or, use a progressive camera to acquire images in the first place.

Sony V1U is inexpensive and works great.

June 2nd, 2008, 02:25 AM	#21
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Jack I am sure that Vimeo does only 1280 X 720 and in my mind there is an obvious difference compared to the pixel for pixel 1920 X 1080.How obvious is subjective but the compression to other formats from cineform loses some quality as well. To register for Cineform player is relatively simple.But if it hassles you and we can find an alternative to host the files in Full res - let me know. I thought that the torrent route is best as the files do not get transcoded in any way.Can do Vimeo downscaled but that won't give you a clear indication of the performance of the codec in certain circumstances.I have 11 files form the other day 4 at the sea with waves.And the swans swimming around which are really good at full res.Waves I am sure would test most codecs to the hilt and when I have downscaled to other codecs to upload the quality is greatly diminished and the usual artifacts appear.I also have some leaves - a different clip from the other day and the detail is very good. Perhaps I shall upload the unedited clips to Vimeo.

June 3rd, 2008, 02:49 PM	#28
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	1920 X 1080 Jack you are a legend.Will do that in the next couple days then.I also own the HC7 and it does take a pretty pic - looking at your vids.British Columbia is very beautiful.Best to you. Henry

May 31st, 2008, 12:02 PM	#18
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	You can still encode to Vimeo in 1920x1080 and it will downscale the web HD version, but your original WMV will remain untouched at 1920 and free to be downloaded. I don't have Cineform so can you re-upload to Vimeo a 1080p version? (In video options, there is a "replace file" option.)

May 31st, 2008, 03:40 PM	#19
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Jack, Cineform provides free player that plays out any Cineform-encoded file, as I understand.

May 31st, 2008, 06:36 PM	#20
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Yes, but I do not wish to register any information to download it. I expect to download a file and simply play it.

June 2nd, 2008, 07:02 AM	#22
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	By testing, I found that intense traffic taxes the codecs more than anything else I could throw at the cameras, including waterfalls etc. Just make sure you're zoomed in so the car's length fills the frame. Manhattan street corner traffic does it. Cars moving in different directions; people going back and forth; multi-directional movements with variable speeds within a frame. V1U's MPEG25 (? I think) codec falls apart with the usual blocky artifacts very quickly on this kind of footage.

June 2nd, 2008, 11:23 AM	#23
Eric Larson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Arlington, VT Posts: 88	A more elegant and cheaper solution to the expensive Magma is if you get a Thinkpad laptop (I just got a T61p top of the line for $1300 (T9300 2.5 and Quadro FX 570m), one of the few laptops "certfied" by Avid) is the Advanced Dock that lenovo makes for their laptops. http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-ThinkPa.../dp/B000BTN1EC It can house a PCI express card like intensity and has ultrabay slot for popping in a 2nd hard drive. I haven't actually tried it myself but I'm serioiusly considering it. And since the laptop locks into the dock it would be more "portable" than carrying around the Magma, a second hard drive, power cables, etc.

June 2nd, 2008, 11:44 AM	#24
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Eric, if this works, it'd really be way better than Magma. Interestingly, it still would be about the same size and weight as my current setup with microATX mobo + Core2Duo 3Ghz in the slim InWin case. (and it seems like my cost is significantly lower, too.) Granted, your setup has laptop screen while mine has none, relying on the external monitor instead. But I still would need a large screen to monitor the camera focus.

June 2nd, 2008, 11:54 AM	#25
Eric Larson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Arlington, VT Posts: 88	Alex you may not need an external monitor, the resolution on the Lenovo T61p is 1920x1200 (this is what sold me on the laptop), granted it is only a 15.4 inch screen.

June 2nd, 2008, 12:04 PM	#26
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	How would I feed that laptop with the HDMI signal out of camera? My current setup is a HDTV that accepts both HDMI signal from Intensity's HDMI Out loop; and VGA computer signal on the other port, to display PC screen. Both are displayed full-screen. Since it's a TV, it removes 2:3 pulldown from my HDMI signal on-the-fly. Current widescreen monitor size is 20". I'd actually want a Larger, not smaller screen, since there are practical shooting situations when you need to see it from across the room etc.; and even at short distance, it'd be better to have a 24" monitor with pixel-for-pixel mapping. (Looking for that now actually.)

June 11th, 2008, 03:46 AM	#29
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	I just saw your most recent video and I still see you're using a bitrate below 8mbps, Vegas supports direct 2-pass WMV encoding at either quality or bitrate medians. No external process is required to create 2-pass, both passes occur in the same render. Also, as I said on Vimeo, try to find a high-end de-interlacer like Magic Bullet before editing to process into progressive files to edit with.