Workflow to capture from EX1 to cineform for Adobe CS3 Vers. 3.2.0

[Ulli Grunow]

Although it might have asked in some other form before it might be little different with latest CS3 version, which supports EX1 camera directly:

What is the best workflow, I should follow, when I want to use Prospect HD together with CS3 (Vers. 3.2.0 currently) and my EX1 camera ?
How should I get the MP4 files into the PC ?
1.) At first how to transfer the files from SxS to Computer (I use the USB connection so far, as I don't have a SxS card reader at the workstation...)
a.)Copy simply by Windows explorer from Sony SxS card onto the Raid0 store or
b.)Use the clip browser software to move the SxS MP4 to the Raid0 store ?

2.) Second - how to change the Sony MP4's into Cineform intermediate codec:
a.) Do I always need to use HD link to run the codec conversion from MP4 to Cineform codec ? or
b.) Can I drag the MP4 file directly into a Cineform project within Premiere 3.2.0 assuming it will transcode "on the fly"... Probably not, as I see the MP4 File in the timeline of the cineform project has to be rendered before I can see it playing...

How do I proceed best to for the fastest and best quality workflow ?
Are there any differences for importing EX1 material into After Effects ?

Thanks for some good suggestions to a newby - just got my camera a couple of days ago and downloaded the Prospect 2K trial to test it and find out the advantages... So far, I think the main advantage will be related to multi-generatation quality benefits... Anything else, which the Cineform software will gain ?
I read through all the things on the Cineform website, but could not find more practical benefits (such as speed enhancement of the workflow, for example)

I am using currently my old PentiumD 2.8Ghz machine with hardware Raid 0 of 2x 250Gb Samsung SATAs, 2Gb RAM,windows XP SP2,
Planning to upgrade to a SuperMicro-based double Quad core Server machine soon...this will speed up things hopefully drastically, as the whole thing of full-HD is very slow on the current machine...

regards,

Ulli

[David Newman]

Via USB you can convert the MP4 data directly from the camera to CineForm AVI targetted to your RAID using HDLink. In HDLink set the "Capture Location" to your RAID and check "Use Capture Location for converted files."

The advantage of CineForm : Performance, multi-generation quality, and much wider compatibility with all your tools (try dragging an MXF or MP4 file into most tools, AVIs are much more accepted.)

[Ulli Grunow]

Ok, as I need to decide whether I should buy Cineform Prospect-HD or not I madea very simple comparison. David from Cineform mentioned earlier, that 10bit cineform codec should show much better results especially with red colors...

With my test, I didn't want to reproduce multi-generation advantages of Cinneform as a post-production intermediate codec - Just I wanted to know, whether there is a difference between 8bit workflow and 10 bit - here is what I did:

8bit workflow:
- made a project in CS3 of XDcam EX 1920x1080 25p (my recording format)
- import the MP4 file from SxS card of EX1
- export the exact first frame of this recording as uncompressed Tif file (millions of colours)
- import TIF file into Photoshop (16bit RGB) and crop the file for size reduction (to post it here) - the result is shown as attached (8bit.tif)

10bit workflow:
-made a project in CS3 with Prospect HD Cineform 1920x1080 25p
- convert MP4 files from SxS card with HD-link to cineform Avi's
- import Cineform Avi's into CS3 timeline
- export as uncompressed Tif (millions+ colours - note the "plus" as the file from Cineform should be 10bit)
- import TiF file into Photoshop (16bit RGB) to crop the image for size reduction of the post here... simply for easier upload - same as above...

My conclusion:
10bitis much more natural ! The bottle is almost real red here in real, but the tray is much more orange as shown in the 8bit image. Also the 8bit image lacks saturation is red colour - it almost seems, that the whole image has a different colour temperature !!! But it is really exactly the same data from the SxS card...
I cannot find any other conclusion, that Cineform codec just shows a different image - I am very astonished, as without any render, I didn't expect the difference that big. Well - cineform at least shows the more natural image now comparing with the live scene on the veranda...

Any comments are very welcome.

By the way: used one of Bill Ravens Picture profiles - great stuff - thanks Bill!

I would like to post the images here - how can I do it ?!? It says, that I am not allowed to do so...

[Ulli Grunow]

Originally Posted by David Newman

Via USB you can convert the MP4 data directly from the camera to CineForm AVI targetted to your RAID using HDLink. In HDLink set the "Capture Location" to your RAID and check "Use Capture Location for converted files."

The advantage of CineForm : Performance, multi-generation quality, and much wider compatibility with all your tools (try dragging an MXF or MP4 file into most tools, AVIs are much more accepted.)

Thanks David,
Just posted my test procedere and I am very pleased with the result - unfortunately I could not find out yet, how to post the result images for the forum audience. It seems impossible to upload it as attachement...?!?

I used HD-link and saved the converted file directly to my Raid0...
Is it normal, that my processor (both cores of Pentium-D 2.8Ghz) go to 100% busy when converting ?

regards, Ulli

[David Newman]

100% is a good thing, it means it is going as fast as possible. It has decode to MPEG2 and encode to CineForm. On a Pentium D that should be faster than real-time.

Attachments here need to be not too large, tricky with HD media. Frame grabs are normally fine, particularly if cropped.

[George Kroonder]

Originally Posted by Ulli Grunow

I would like to post the images here - how can I do it ?!? It says, that I am not allowed to do so...

Hi Ulli,

Posting attachments is only allowed if you have enough posts. I think you need something like 100... Perhaps you can ask one of the moderators to make an exception.

Also as far as I know you need to use the Sony software to combine clips that span multiple cards, I'm not sure if and how HDLink supports this.

George/

[Ulli Grunow]

Originally Posted by George Kroonder

Hi Ulli,

Posting attachments is only allowed if you have enough posts. I think you need something like 100... Perhaps you can ask one of the moderators to make an exception.

George/

Hi George - thanks for info!
Well, that needs some time, as I am rather new here with posting things...

I hope to get some comments as I found some space to post the two uncompressed TIF's - actually they are not at all cropped, but directly from the CS3 Export:
- 8bit from the CS3 XDcam EX frame exporter without use of Cineform
- 10bit from the Cineform project

Actually I am very surprised to find the picture difference that big !

You can download both TIF filesthem here for inspection
www.webmaatwerk.com/cineform

Just right-click on one of the files and use download source...

regards.
Ulli

[David Newman]

The color difference is the difference between 601 and 709 colorspace. Premiere has defaulted to 601 which is incorrect for HD cameras. 601 vs 709 throughs off greens and reds. I haven't tested for this 3.2, but is has been a long term fault with Premiere's MPEG native modes (HDV, MXF XD-CAM.) Capture some color bars in camera and post that MP4 file, put the vectra scope on that.

[David Newman]

Just tested 3.2 and Premiere is still wrong. So another reason to use CineForm, accurate color.

[Ulli Grunow]

Originally Posted by David Newman

Just tested 3.2 and Premiere is still wrong. So another reason to use CineForm, accurate color.

David, thanks for info - indeed. that would explain the big colour difference...
Quite honestly, I was almost shocked to see this!

When loaded the tif files into Photoshop, I changed the colour profile to 709 to compare my monitor picture with the original scene... fortunately I could see everything here in real !

Indeed its a clear point for Cineform...
The Cineform export is much closer to real scene, even I am using only a simple LCD computer screen... (Samsung 19inch 940BF calibrated as good as I could)

Ulli