What Cineform export settings for Blu-ray? at DVinfo.net

Deniz Ahmet · March 31st, 2008, 05:57 AM

Not tried this yet, but wondering what export option one would select in Premiere to get the best file suitable for use in authoring Blu-ray (Adobe Encore). I'll be using Aspect or Prospect (not decided yet)

I realise Premiere has export modes for this workflow, but I heard they are not good for quality/buggy.

Also, I want to try encoding SD from HD timeline in an external application (Procoder 3), what export settings do I need to get a suitable input file. Is the added stage worth it in quality or does straight export from premiere with cineform reduced frame size work just as well.

Thanking you in advance.

Adam Gold · March 31st, 2008, 12:41 PM

I haven't tried this yet either, but I would think the best would be to export to CFHD-AVI and then pull that file into your authoring SW for writing to BD.

And for the downscaling SD option I think in another thread David recommends just changing the frame size and PAR in the CFHD-AVI export.

Robert Young · March 31st, 2008, 02:56 PM

I've tried a variety of approaches to downconversion of CFHD to DVD. I've gotten the best looking DVDs using Adobe Premiere Export Movie of CFHD to CFDV 480i.avi. Then using Procoder3 to transcode the CFDV.avi to "mastering quality" mpeg2.m2v. Depending on my source material, I find that using the ProCoder3 Gamma Adjustment is very effective for fine tuning the "look" of the final DVD images. I will often use the Procoder3 color adjustment to boost the color saturation a little as well.
If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you can get terrific DVD images by exporting the CFHD to non interlaced CFDV 480.avi. The Cineform downconversion does a good job of deinterlacing. Then transcode to non interlaced mpeg2.m2v with ProCoder.
The fairly new, inexpensive HDMI "upscaling" DVD players will output your 480 pix DVD as 720 or 1080 to an HDTV. This works remarkably well. Using the above workflows, your DVD can look like a hardware encoded Hollywood production with these "upscaling" players.

Deniz Ahmet · March 31st, 2008, 03:29 PM

Hello can you clarify what you mean by "Adobe Premiere Export Movie of CFHD to CFDV 480i.avi"

Do you mean you select HDexport and change the frame size to DVD? Is CFDV a setting?

Also "If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you can get terrific DVD images by exporting the CFHD to non interlaced CFDV 480.avi. "
What settings in premiere do that?

Thank you

Robert Young · March 31st, 2008, 04:53 PM

Assuming you are in a Cineform 1080i Premiere project, select File> Export> Movie. Click on Settings. This will bring up the export window with the Cineform "CFHD" encoder selected. Within the settings, change the frame size to 480x720, PAR 1.2, in the rendering window select the field dominance (upper first or lower first), or select for non interlaced. The resulting 480 .avi file is often referred to as CFDV (720x480) as contrasted to CFHD (1080x1440).
If you want to produce a progressive DVD, select "non interlaced" in the export movie settings window- in the "rendering" window. This will generate a CFDV 480p.avi file. When you transcode to mpeg2 in ProCoder3, select "non interlaced" on the target parameter page. This will produce a progressive mpeg2 DVD file that you then author and burn- but the DVD will only play on "progressive scan" enabled DVD players

Deniz Ahmet · March 31st, 2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

Assuming you are in a Cineform 1080i Premiere project, select File> Export> Movie. Click on Settings. This will bring up the export window with the Cineform "CFHD" encoder selected. Within the settings, change the frame size to 480x720, PAR 1.2, in the rendering window select the field dominance (upper first or lower first), or select for non interlaced. The resulting 480 .avi file is often referred to as CFDV (720x480) as contrasted to CFHD (1080x1440).
If you want to produce a progressive DVD, select "non interlaced" in the export movie settings window- in the "rendering" window. This will generate a CFDV 480p.avi file. When you transcode to mpeg2 in ProCoder3, select "non interlaced" on the target parameter page. This will produce a progressive mpeg2 DVD file that you then author and burn- but the DVD will only play on "progressive scan" enabled DVD players

thanks....

Curious why not encode directly with Procoder from inside Premiere timeline, why go through extra stage of creating CFDV first?

Robert Young · March 31st, 2008, 06:19 PM

I've tried it all those different ways.
Procoder will definitely encode directly from CFHD 1080i.avi to mepg2.m2v, but the final DVD images look softer to me than using Cineform to do the downconversion to 480i.
A lot of it depends on how the DVD is displayed. If you are watching the DVD on a 480i CRT TV, it all looks fine with just about any workflow. Where the challenge lies is when the 480 pix DVD is played onto a 720 HDTV, which is fast becoming the norm, in the U.S. anyway. When you spread your software encoded 480pix DVD out to a 720 pix monitor, the image looks quite soft. The various workflows I have described seem to me to improve on this softness, some more than others.

Robert Young · March 31st, 2008, 07:40 PM

In my view, the high standard for DVD imagery on an HDTV monitor is hardware encoded HD footage- e.g. a Hollywood movie DVD.
The closest I have come to achieving that standard with software encoding and a simple workflow is the above described progressive workflow played on an inexpensive ($80) Sony HDMI "upscaling" DVD player.

Adam Gold · April 1st, 2008, 11:15 AM

David, any thoughts on the Blu-Ray portion of this discussion? Just export to CFHD-AVI and let Encore do the rest for BD? Or is there a better way?

And related to this: In exporting to CFHD-AVI, what's the difference between High HD and High HD Optimized? Finally, should we go from CFHD-AVI to Encore or CFHD-AVI -> Cineform M2T -> Encore? Does it matter?

Adam Gold · April 2nd, 2008, 02:46 PM

David, David or Jake -- any thoughts on this?

David Newman · April 2nd, 2008, 05:42 PM

Never go to M2T first. Stay as CineForm AVI as long as possible. High (classic format used on Dust to Glory) and High Optimized (slightly better for 1080p.)

Adam Gold · April 2nd, 2008, 05:59 PM

So CFHD-AVI straight to Encore for BD is best? Let Encore do everything else?

David Newman · April 2nd, 2008, 06:05 PM

Yes. That way you can test the AVI, so you know it is good, and if anything goes wrong after that you can blame Encore. :)

Adam Gold · April 2nd, 2008, 06:21 PM

Sounds good and, most importantly, easy.

Thanks David.

Herminio Cordido · April 9th, 2008, 11:59 AM

So i finished a project that i filmed on hdv, pal dv and ntsc dv.
I am exporting from Premiere Pro 2.0 a Cineform HD NTSC .avi progressive file.
The fields look ok, but on the right side of the screen, there is a weird vertical line (2 or 3 pixels thick) show on the avi file aswell as on the dvd built in Encore.

I am also having issues (after installing Cineform's Prospect HD) importing a Premiere pro project (or copy and pasting clips from PP's timeline) into After Effects.
Before i use to copy the clip in the timeline, jump to AE and paste it. Now, the clip apears in AE, but the portion of the clip is not the right one, the timecode is off or something, any solutions for this?

Thanks

March 31st, 2008, 05:57 AM	#1
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	What Cineform export settings for Blu-ray? Not tried this yet, but wondering what export option one would select in Premiere to get the best file suitable for use in authoring Blu-ray (Adobe Encore). I'll be using Aspect or Prospect (not decided yet) I realise Premiere has export modes for this workflow, but I heard they are not good for quality/buggy. Also, I want to try encoding SD from HD timeline in an external application (Procoder 3), what export settings do I need to get a suitable input file. Is the added stage worth it in quality or does straight export from premiere with cineform reduced frame size work just as well. Thanking you in advance.

March 31st, 2008, 07:40 PM	#8
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	In my view, the high standard for DVD imagery on an HDTV monitor is hardware encoded HD footage- e.g. a Hollywood movie DVD. The closest I have come to achieving that standard with software encoding and a simple workflow is the above described progressive workflow played on an inexpensive ($80) Sony HDMI "upscaling" DVD player. Last edited by Robert Young; March 31st, 2008 at 09:16 PM.

April 1st, 2008, 11:15 AM	#9
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	David, any thoughts on the Blu-Ray portion of this discussion? Just export to CFHD-AVI and let Encore do the rest for BD? Or is there a better way? And related to this: In exporting to CFHD-AVI, what's the difference between High HD and High HD Optimized? Finally, should we go from CFHD-AVI to Encore or CFHD-AVI -> Cineform M2T -> Encore? Does it matter? Last edited by Adam Gold; April 1st, 2008 at 01:24 PM.

April 2nd, 2008, 05:42 PM	#11
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Never go to M2T first. Stay as CineForm AVI as long as possible. High (classic format used on Dust to Glory) and High Optimized (slightly better for 1080p.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 2nd, 2008, 06:05 PM	#13
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes. That way you can test the AVI, so you know it is good, and if anything goes wrong after that you can blame Encore. :) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

March 31st, 2008, 12:41 PM	#2
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I haven't tried this yet either, but I would think the best would be to export to CFHD-AVI and then pull that file into your authoring SW for writing to BD. And for the downscaling SD option I think in another thread David recommends just changing the frame size and PAR in the CFHD-AVI export.

March 31st, 2008, 02:56 PM	#3
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I've tried a variety of approaches to downconversion of CFHD to DVD. I've gotten the best looking DVDs using Adobe Premiere Export Movie of CFHD to CFDV 480i.avi. Then using Procoder3 to transcode the CFDV.avi to "mastering quality" mpeg2.m2v. Depending on my source material, I find that using the ProCoder3 Gamma Adjustment is very effective for fine tuning the "look" of the final DVD images. I will often use the Procoder3 color adjustment to boost the color saturation a little as well. If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you can get terrific DVD images by exporting the CFHD to non interlaced CFDV 480.avi. The Cineform downconversion does a good job of deinterlacing. Then transcode to non interlaced mpeg2.m2v with ProCoder. The fairly new, inexpensive HDMI "upscaling" DVD players will output your 480 pix DVD as 720 or 1080 to an HDTV. This works remarkably well. Using the above workflows, your DVD can look like a hardware encoded Hollywood production with these "upscaling" players.

March 31st, 2008, 03:29 PM	#4
Deniz Ahmet Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LONDON Posts: 178	Hello can you clarify what you mean by "Adobe Premiere Export Movie of CFHD to CFDV 480i.avi" Do you mean you select HDexport and change the frame size to DVD? Is CFDV a setting? Also "If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you can get terrific DVD images by exporting the CFHD to non interlaced CFDV 480.avi. " What settings in premiere do that? Thank you

March 31st, 2008, 04:53 PM	#5
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Assuming you are in a Cineform 1080i Premiere project, select File> Export> Movie. Click on Settings. This will bring up the export window with the Cineform "CFHD" encoder selected. Within the settings, change the frame size to 480x720, PAR 1.2, in the rendering window select the field dominance (upper first or lower first), or select for non interlaced. The resulting 480 .avi file is often referred to as CFDV (720x480) as contrasted to CFHD (1080x1440). If you want to produce a progressive DVD, select "non interlaced" in the export movie settings window- in the "rendering" window. This will generate a CFDV 480p.avi file. When you transcode to mpeg2 in ProCoder3, select "non interlaced" on the target parameter page. This will produce a progressive mpeg2 DVD file that you then author and burn- but the DVD will only play on "progressive scan" enabled DVD players

March 31st, 2008, 06:19 PM	#7
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I've tried it all those different ways. Procoder will definitely encode directly from CFHD 1080i.avi to mepg2.m2v, but the final DVD images look softer to me than using Cineform to do the downconversion to 480i. A lot of it depends on how the DVD is displayed. If you are watching the DVD on a 480i CRT TV, it all looks fine with just about any workflow. Where the challenge lies is when the 480 pix DVD is played onto a 720 HDTV, which is fast becoming the norm, in the U.S. anyway. When you spread your software encoded 480pix DVD out to a 720 pix monitor, the image looks quite soft. The various workflows I have described seem to me to improve on this softness, some more than others.

April 2nd, 2008, 02:46 PM	#10
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	David, David or Jake -- any thoughts on this?

April 2nd, 2008, 05:59 PM	#12
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	So CFHD-AVI straight to Encore for BD is best? Let Encore do everything else?

April 2nd, 2008, 06:21 PM	#14
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Sounds good and, most importantly, easy. Thanks David.

April 9th, 2008, 11:59 AM	#15
Herminio Cordido Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 57	Exporting Cineform to DVD So i finished a project that i filmed on hdv, pal dv and ntsc dv. I am exporting from Premiere Pro 2.0 a Cineform HD NTSC .avi progressive file. The fields look ok, but on the right side of the screen, there is a weird vertical line (2 or 3 pixels thick) show on the avi file aswell as on the dvd built in Encore. I am also having issues (after installing Cineform's Prospect HD) importing a Premiere pro project (or copy and pasting clips from PP's timeline) into After Effects. Before i use to copy the clip in the timeline, jump to AE and paste it. Now, the clip apears in AE, but the portion of the clip is not the right one, the timecode is off or something, any solutions for this? Thanks