In a nutshell, what is CineForm?

[Rob Rippe]

Elevator: I missed my floor, could some one hit seven for me, thanks...

I have a couple different things running through my head..

First, I'm not a regular poster, so I hope I'm following correct edict...

Here is some help for understanding the complex geek side of HD that I just read:
The article called "Understanding HD formats" by Videoguys.com.
It's a very nice resource for understanding all the ever-changing flavors of HD.
found here:
Videoguys Guide to Understanding HD Formats

Cineform questions I could use help with:

(If I understand correctly).. NeoScene will get me out of GOP / iframe workflow?
(could someone confirm this?)
That alone would be worth the price of admission!

So if I have HDV 60i footage, I can convert it to 24p (at the same time de-interlace the footage). Yes?
With little quality loss?
NeoScene (any Cineform product) works on capture only? Or existing footage on a drive also?

Mac workflow:
Cineform format will become ProRes?
HQ or standard?
Does it have a smaller ProRes file size? (or is that only in the PC AVI side of things?).
NeoScene offers a better workflow than ProRes alone?
Or is the main advantage true 24p workflow?
and lastly, can I get smoother slowmotion with it?

Thanks everyone!

[David Taylor]

Originally Posted by Rob Rippe

NeoScene will get me out of GOP / iframe workflow?
(could someone confirm this?)

Correct! Neo Scene files convert out of long-GOP interframe coding into CineForm's more editing-friendly I-Frame Wavelet format.

Originally Posted by Rob Rippe

So if I have HDV 60i footage, I can convert it to 24p (at the same time de-interlace the footage). Yes?
With little quality loss?

Yes. IF you shoot 60i you can deinterlacing to 30p or remove telecine to get 24p. Telecine removal restores 24p regardless of whether you shot 24p-embedded-in-60i or whether you shot straight interlaced.

Quality loss? No - it's why you use a digital intermediate format like CineForm.

Originally Posted by Rob Rippe

NeoScene (any Cineform product) works on capture only? Or existing footage on a drive also?

Neo Scene (Mac) is only a file-based converter. If you shoot HDV (tape) you need to use a program like QT Pro to ingest your HDV tape into files and then convert with Neo Scene. Neo Scene Win also captures directly from tape while converting to CineForm files, so this is a feature difference between Win and Mac.

Originally Posted by Rob Rippe

Mac workflow:
Cineform format will become ProRes?
HQ or standard?
Does it have a smaller ProRes file size? (or is that only in the PC AVI side of things?).
NeoScene offers a better workflow than ProRes alone?
Or is the main advantage true 24p workflow?
and lastly, can I get smoother slowmotion with it?

Neo Scene converts to ProRes HQ not standard. The reason is that all CineForm files are always 10 bits, so we wanted to support the ProRes equivalent. But ProRes HQ files are almost twice the file size of CineForm files.

CineForm has different features than ProRes. Some people will prefer ProRes so we included it as a destination format separate from CineForm. Its (ProRes) big advantage is it has full access to the FCP RT engine. If you add an effect or title to a CineForm file you'll need to render in FCP. This is because the FCP RT engine is not made available to any third parties. (BTW, CineForm works great in iMovie for those with simpler workflows).

The CineForm advantage of Neo Scene on Mac is definitely the 24p workflow. There isn't a good way to get to 24p otherwise. But you also have easy cross-platform compatibility with CineForm files - not so with ProRes, although this feature may not be needed by all. Also, CineForm files are properly interpreted by AE as 10-bit files. Last time we checked ProRes files were interpreted by AE as 8 bits. Finally, if you upgrade to Neo HD you get CineForm's new Active Metadata workflow using First Light which is our non-destructive image development application (think Lightroom for video files but more powerful).

[Rob Rippe]

David, great help!
Thank you!



I didn't know the details on I-Frame Wavelet format. So found this write-up on codecs (if anyone is also looking for details, here is the link)

Issue Date: October 1, 2007

THE TRUTH ABOUT CODECS - PART 1
Heath Firestone

THE TRUTH ABOUT CODECS - PART 1 | Articles | Post Magazine


PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER: CODECS - PART 2

PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER: CODECS - PART 2 | Articles | Post Magazine