Color Conversion Problem with Neo HD and Vegas8 at DVinfo.net

Bill Ravens · December 28th, 2007, 01:28 PM

David....
Hoping you can offer a suggestion, here, as to why I'm seeing color differences between Neo HDV and Neo HD with Vegas Pro 8a.

I performed this test with Neo HDV several months ago. I recorded a color bar pattern from my HD110 and converted the m2t file with HDLink to CFHD. After importing the intermediate file to Vegas Pro 8a, and looking at the file with the Vegas waveform monitor(WFM), b&w levels and colors lined up well with the reference marks in the WFM.

I recently upgraded my license to Neo HD and repeated the test. The CFHD intermediate, when examined in the WFM, is showing the correct b&w levels, however, the colors are quite a bit off. The image appears very "neon" in appearance.

I filed a trouble ticket, together with some of the test files. Do you know what might be causing the problem?

David Newman · December 28th, 2007, 01:31 PM

Send sample to support as no one else has reported this. It is very odd the the waveform shows levels are correct but displays wrong. There is no difference in the Vegas decoder better NEO HDV and NEO HD, only the encoder changes. Making this even weirder.

Bill Ravens · December 28th, 2007, 01:36 PM

In the interest of clarification, the WFM confirms that the colors are off. The B&W LEVELS are right on, RGB 16 and RGB 235, however the color refs are off as if it is a gamma problem. For example, RGB values on the NTSC colorbars green should be R016 G180 B016, but they read R016, G224, B006.

David Newman · December 28th, 2007, 01:40 PM

Send your samples, with full details of your testing procedures, include how and when your source AVIs were created.

Bill Ravens · December 28th, 2007, 02:34 PM

Update:
Re-installed Neo HD v3.21 and the colorbars now look correct. I was misled because I had uninstalled v 3.22, reinstalled v 3.21, and CFHD did not retrograde to the earlier version. After manually removing CFHD, and re-installing v 3.21, it retrograded.

Bottom line: the problem seems to be with NeoHD v3.22, build 148 decoder. Files encoded with v3.22 now display properly with v3.21 reinstalled.

David Newman · December 28th, 2007, 04:06 PM

Still can't do any testing without your samples. Please be quick as I'm about to be out until Jan 2nd. Fortunately you can use 3.2.1.

Bill Ravens · December 28th, 2007, 04:42 PM

sorry...
where to?

David Newman · December 28th, 2007, 04:52 PM

www.cineform.com/support please file a ticket.

Bill Ravens · December 28th, 2007, 04:56 PM

thanx, already done.
611-5515061

David Newman · December 29th, 2007, 10:15 AM

Unfortunately I didn't get the links before I left of the long weekend. You are welcome to email me with that data and I look if I have some time.

Bill Ravens · December 29th, 2007, 10:37 AM

Thanx, David....
I think it'll keep until next year. Hope you have a great New Years!!!

Bill Ravens · January 2nd, 2008, 05:49 PM

David...

Just got an email from Cineform support telling me they had closed the trouble ticket because you are handling it. Is there a resolution to my problem?

David Newman · January 2nd, 2008, 05:53 PM

Yes, it is fixed. Doing the new builds now.

Bill Ravens · January 2nd, 2008, 06:01 PM

Great...Thanx for your attention.
I'm starting to work with .mxf files from an EX1, so this will be very timely.

David Newman · January 2nd, 2008, 06:57 PM

The bug was in the decoder, so you can start you encoding now.

December 28th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#1
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Color Conversion Problem with Neo HD and Vegas8 David.... Hoping you can offer a suggestion, here, as to why I'm seeing color differences between Neo HDV and Neo HD with Vegas Pro 8a. I performed this test with Neo HDV several months ago. I recorded a color bar pattern from my HD110 and converted the m2t file with HDLink to CFHD. After importing the intermediate file to Vegas Pro 8a, and looking at the file with the Vegas waveform monitor(WFM), b&w levels and colors lined up well with the reference marks in the WFM. I recently upgraded my license to Neo HD and repeated the test. The CFHD intermediate, when examined in the WFM, is showing the correct b&w levels, however, the colors are quite a bit off. The image appears very "neon" in appearance. I filed a trouble ticket, together with some of the test files. Do you know what might be causing the problem?

December 28th, 2007, 01:31 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Send sample to support as no one else has reported this. It is very odd the the waveform shows levels are correct but displays wrong. There is no difference in the Vegas decoder better NEO HDV and NEO HD, only the encoder changes. Making this even weirder. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 28th, 2007, 01:40 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Send your samples, with full details of your testing procedures, include how and when your source AVIs were created. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 28th, 2007, 02:34 PM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Update: Re-installed Neo HD v3.21 and the colorbars now look correct. I was misled because I had uninstalled v 3.22, reinstalled v 3.21, and CFHD did not retrograde to the earlier version. After manually removing CFHD, and re-installing v 3.21, it retrograded. Bottom line: the problem seems to be with NeoHD v3.22, build 148 decoder. Files encoded with v3.22 now display properly with v3.21 reinstalled. Last edited by Bill Ravens; December 28th, 2007 at 03:26 PM.

December 28th, 2007, 04:06 PM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Still can't do any testing without your samples. Please be quick as I'm about to be out until Jan 2nd. Fortunately you can use 3.2.1. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 28th, 2007, 01:36 PM	#3
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	In the interest of clarification, the WFM confirms that the colors are off. The B&W LEVELS are right on, RGB 16 and RGB 235, however the color refs are off as if it is a gamma problem. For example, RGB values on the NTSC colorbars green should be R016 G180 B016, but they read R016, G224, B006.

December 28th, 2007, 04:42 PM	#7
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	sorry... where to?

December 28th, 2007, 04:52 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	www.cineform.com/support please file a ticket. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 28th, 2007, 04:56 PM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	thanx, already done. 611-5515061

December 29th, 2007, 10:15 AM	#10
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Unfortunately I didn't get the links before I left of the long weekend. You are welcome to email me with that data and I look if I have some time. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 29th, 2007, 10:37 AM	#11
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Thanx, David.... I think it'll keep until next year. Hope you have a great New Years!!!

January 2nd, 2008, 05:49 PM	#12
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	David... Just got an email from Cineform support telling me they had closed the trouble ticket because you are handling it. Is there a resolution to my problem?

January 2nd, 2008, 05:53 PM	#13
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, it is fixed. Doing the new builds now. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 2nd, 2008, 06:01 PM	#14
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Great...Thanx for your attention. I'm starting to work with .mxf files from an EX1, so this will be very timely.

January 2nd, 2008, 06:57 PM	#15
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The bug was in the decoder, so you can start you encoding now. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman