Overlay - avoiding the dreaded "black pause" at DVinfo.net

Graham Hickling · December 12th, 2007, 09:49 PM

I have AspectHD, a Nvidia 7600GS, and "Enable overlay" checked in my CS3 Cineform projects to enable fullscreen monitoring on a secondary LCD-HDTV.

Everything works great .... except for the annoying 2sec black pause when moving between scrubbing and playback.

Can anyone recommend a cheapish (i.e. not Aja) graphics card/monitor combination that does NOT suffer from this pause?

[Note: this is a Cineform project issue - I realize it doesn't happen with native Premiere HDV projects.]

Peter Ferling · December 13th, 2007, 12:33 AM

Cineform doesn't use the GPU for processing. It's a combination of CPU, disk speed and buss, etc. Hence with BOXX workstation with quad opteron 270s, I get the delay when using overlay preview to second monitor, and this is with an Nvidia Quadro FX 3450 SDI. However, I get almost no delay when editing from my Dell Lattitude laptop with duo core T7500, and it has an intel shared graphics chipset.

My old 3.0GHz dual xeon workstation at home is even slower, obviously with single core, 7505 socket and only 533 FSB. (Which is why I replaced the quadroFX card on that one with a $99 ATI game card, the cheaper card allows me to play new games in highest quality and my cineform edits do not suffer -because, again, the GPU is not a factor).

This is why you need an AJA solution, it's a dedicated pipe and cineform was written specifically to take advantage. It is instantaneous. Worth every penny.

Stephen Armour · December 13th, 2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

...This is why you need an AJA solution, it's a dedicated pipe and cineform was written specifically to take advantage. It is instantaneous. Worth every penny.

Peter, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but it just seems to me that especially if someone has a fast new mb, with a fast quad, with a decent RAID...it would eliminate most of that advantage, would it not?

Not to mention getting fast renders in the bargain. I've been trying to listen and understand the real reasons why AJA's "solution" would make it worth our while in a non-SDI workflow.

Still looking for more on this...

Graham Hickling · December 13th, 2007, 10:00 AM

My reason for posting is that some people have claimed have much less of a pause than others with non-Aja setups, and it would be good to hear what configurations they have to figure out what the main hardware factor is.

(I could be completely wrong on this, but it seems the resolution sent to the 2nd monitor when scrubbing and during playback differ - and vary depending on "interlace while scrubbing" and high/low resolution playback settings. So maybe the black pause is a function of the monitor having to change resolution?)

David Newman · December 13th, 2007, 10:09 AM

Sometimes the monitor is a factor, but it is mostly the video card (particularly NVidia is bad.) The Matrox Parahelia has the shortest switching time, although the black is still there. Only the AJA setup is seamless.

Herman Van Deventer · December 14th, 2007, 04:49 PM

The matrox nails at at 1 sec on my system.

Got used to singing the song - "black is black..... while editing.

Peter Ferling · December 14th, 2007, 11:26 PM

This is not surprising. We're dealing with compressed media, high quality media, but still compressed. Encoding/decoding this media is task done by the precessors. Want faster results, get faster processors.

I use a Sony LMD with HD-SDI input board. The monitor also has a PC input and I switch to that as my second PC monitor on the dual head. When I edit, I switch the LMD to the HD-SDI via AJA, it's a night and day difference.

However, if you have a strong graphics card (one that supports dual hardware overlay), you could just undock and drag the application preview monitor to the second display and stretch it out to fill as much of the screen as possible. Just as quick as the AJA, and avoid overlay switching altogether. Even with overlay, you're not getting correct colors anyway as they shift with some cards -which is reason #2 for why I use the AJA onto a studio grade monitor.

Marc Colemont · December 15th, 2007, 03:08 AM

David, any progress on the usage of the Blackmagic cards?

David Taylor · December 15th, 2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Colemont

David, any progress on the usage of the Blackmagic cards?

In the past our answer to that question was always a bit vague, but I can confirm that we're actually working on it now. "Hopefully soon" is the best schedule you'll get out of us for now however....

David.

Manuel Lopez · December 16th, 2007, 11:25 AM

quote:
"Hopefully soon" is the best schedule you'll get out of us for now however....

Great news. I have a blackmagic card, and I am anxious.

Miguel Lombana · December 16th, 2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

In the past our answer to that question was always a bit vague, but I can confirm that we're actually working on it now. "Hopefully soon" is the best schedule you'll get out of us for now however....

David.

David I can only hope/suggest that engineering codes something for some of us that only want to use the BM Intensity Pro card and it's Component Outs to monitor.

I don't have a monitor capable of HDMI only Component and I now own the BM Pro card that is useless to me right now. I'm using the Component outs on another useless card to me (Quadro FX1500) and I can preview but with the previously mentioned 2 second delay, I would just love to see the BM Pro deliver via Cineform in realtime without the delays.

That said I'm only hoping that when a release of Aspect comes out it includes a hook to push video to the Component out.

Keeping the faith!

Miguel

December 12th, 2007, 09:49 PM	#1
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Overlay - avoiding the dreaded "black pause" I have AspectHD, a Nvidia 7600GS, and "Enable overlay" checked in my CS3 Cineform projects to enable fullscreen monitoring on a secondary LCD-HDTV. Everything works great .... except for the annoying 2sec black pause when moving between scrubbing and playback. Can anyone recommend a cheapish (i.e. not Aja) graphics card/monitor combination that does NOT suffer from this pause? [Note: this is a Cineform project issue - I realize it doesn't happen with native Premiere HDV projects.]

December 13th, 2007, 10:00 AM	#4
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	My reason for posting is that some people have claimed have much less of a pause than others with non-Aja setups, and it would be good to hear what configurations they have to figure out what the main hardware factor is. (I could be completely wrong on this, but it seems the resolution sent to the 2nd monitor when scrubbing and during playback differ - and vary depending on "interlace while scrubbing" and high/low resolution playback settings. So maybe the black pause is a function of the monitor having to change resolution?) Last edited by Graham Hickling; December 13th, 2007 at 11:07 AM.

December 13th, 2007, 10:09 AM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Sometimes the monitor is a factor, but it is mostly the video card (particularly NVidia is bad.) The Matrox Parahelia has the shortest switching time, although the black is still there. Only the AJA setup is seamless. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 14th, 2007, 04:49 PM	#6
Herman Van Deventer Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: cape town South-Africa Posts: 251	Matrox Apve The matrox nails at at 1 sec on my system. Got used to singing the song - "black is black..... while editing.

December 14th, 2007, 11:26 PM	#7
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	This is not surprising. We're dealing with compressed media, high quality media, but still compressed. Encoding/decoding this media is task done by the precessors. Want faster results, get faster processors. I use a Sony LMD with HD-SDI input board. The monitor also has a PC input and I switch to that as my second PC monitor on the dual head. When I edit, I switch the LMD to the HD-SDI via AJA, it's a night and day difference. However, if you have a strong graphics card (one that supports dual hardware overlay), you could just undock and drag the application preview monitor to the second display and stretch it out to fill as much of the screen as possible. Just as quick as the AJA, and avoid overlay switching altogether. Even with overlay, you're not getting correct colors anyway as they shift with some cards -which is reason #2 for why I use the AJA onto a studio grade monitor. __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

December 13th, 2007, 12:33 AM	#2
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Cineform doesn't use the GPU for processing. It's a combination of CPU, disk speed and buss, etc. Hence with BOXX workstation with quad opteron 270s, I get the delay when using overlay preview to second monitor, and this is with an Nvidia Quadro FX 3450 SDI. However, I get almost no delay when editing from my Dell Lattitude laptop with duo core T7500, and it has an intel shared graphics chipset. My old 3.0GHz dual xeon workstation at home is even slower, obviously with single core, 7505 socket and only 533 FSB. (Which is why I replaced the quadroFX card on that one with a $99 ATI game card, the cheaper card allows me to play new games in highest quality and my cineform edits do not suffer -because, again, the GPU is not a factor). This is why you need an AJA solution, it's a dedicated pipe and cineform was written specifically to take advantage. It is instantaneous. Worth every penny. __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

December 15th, 2007, 03:08 AM	#8
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	David, any progress on the usage of the Blackmagic cards? __________________ Marc Colemont - Belgium - http://www.mc-productions.be JVC GY-HM850's, HM890, HM600

December 16th, 2007, 11:25 AM	#10
Manuel Lopez Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Spain Posts: 40	quote: "Hopefully soon" is the best schedule you'll get out of us for now however.... Great news. I have a blackmagic card, and I am anxious.