aspect ratio: importing Cineform QT files into Avid

[Sean Worsell]

I've posted this in Avid and elsewhere, cuz I'm sorta desperate.

After spending 2 days importing a LOT of QuickTime files into Avid I have a feeling I screwed something up.

I shot using the HV20 which allows me to get 23.98 fps with pulldown thanks to Cineform (which worked like a charm).

Now I have QuickTime files (generated by Cineform Neo HD) and they have a 1440x1080 aspect ratio and 23.98 frame rate. That's because they were HDV files, and I selected "keep source aspect ratio" when I created those QuickTime files.

Then I created a 1080p project in Avid to import those files. I chose this project type, because the QuickTime files themselves were no longer "HDV" after I put them through Cineform (they have been converted to QT HD files with a true 23.98 frame rate now using pulldown). And in fact there are no project types within Avid that allow for HDV/23.98fps. Again, these QT files ARE still 1440x1080, however.

So when I now look more carefully at the imported files inside Avid (in 16x9 window), the footage appears to be a bit distorted. It looks like it has been stretched a bit vertically. Oh-oh.

Does this mean I have to edit the entire project slightly distorted? Is there another solution to view this 1440x1080 footage? Where did I go wrong...or did I go wrong? Maybe I set up the project incorrectly. Or maybe I just have to export my project with a corrected "aspect ratio"? I've never had to do this before.

Any advice desperately appreciated, as my deadline looms.

[David Newman]

The footage in Avid need to flags with 1.33:1 pixel aspect ratio. In AE and Premiere the operation is "interpret footage", you need to find the equivalent in Avid. Do this before before starting your edit.

OR

NEO HD can generate 1920x1080 images. You can do that during capture or after the fact. Load in your 1440x1080 MOVs and batch convert them with the scaler set to 1920x1080.

The first method will be fastest.

[Sean Worsell]

Originally Posted by David Newman

The footage in Avid need to flags with 1.33:1 pixel aspect ratio. In AE and Premiere the operation is "interpret footage", you need to find the equivalent in Avid. Do this before before starting your edit.

OR

NEO HD can generate 1920x1080 images. You can do that during capture or after the fact. Load in your 1440x1080 MOVs and batch convert them with the scaler set to 1920x1080.

The first method will be fastest.

Thanks for the quick response David. I was LOVING the M2 flip and the pulldown that Cineform Neo HD was giving me with the HV20 + Redrock footage. But this Avid compatibility is baffling me.

Alas, Avid does not have an interpret footage option like After Effects does. You can select one of the limited number of project types and that's it. Then once it's in the Avid, it's locked that way in the Avid it seems!

It took me forever to import into Avid because I was trying to use as high an HD codec as possible (DNxHD 10 bit, thereby trying to take advantage of the 10 bit color space offered by Cineform Neo HD). But Avid interprets every Cineform .mov file as containing an alpha (maybe because of the M2 flip?), and so I had to be there to click YES for every clip...and then every clip took an eon to ingest. It's now all in Avid and playing beautifully...albeit at the wrong aspect ratio.

Like I said, I went with the 1080p/23.98 Avid project type because I wanted the real 23.98 that Cineform was offering me in the QuickTime files.

At this point, I think I will have to either resize by some % within Avid (thereby cropping a bit off the sides and losing some resolution as a result...DAMN!). Or I'll have to finish as is, then export a QuickTime Reference file and import that into After Effects to interpret the .mov file with a 1.33 pixel aspect ratio and export from there.

I just feel like I'm missing something...or maybe the Cineform workflow just doesn't jive well with Avid.

[Sean Worsell]

Okay, I've accepted I have to re-import everything. My bad!

So my most significant question at this point is whether, in making the conversion from Cineform 1440x1080 to Cineform 1920x1080 using Cineform Neo HD, I should uncheck "keep source aspect ratio" and ensure that Centrecrop on 16x9 is checked? Or should I have "Keep source aspect ratio" checked and also check "Centrecrop non 16x9 source"?

I must uncheck M2 lens adapter and uncheck 3:2 pulldown, obviously, since these processes were done int eh original capture.

Also I would uncheck split file on scene changes, since the files are already parsed.

Any advantage in going for Film quality or changing Frame Format from Automatic to Progressive? Only reason I can imagine bumping to Film quality is if I'm losing some quality in this extra encoding step.

[David Newman]

try a clip or two. I can't remember.

[Sean Worsell]

Yes, I know goof-ups like me must make you wanna pull your hair out. I've pulled mine out already. I'll test some with various settings and post my final solution later. Sigh.

EDIT: I'm getting Errors when I try to do this file to file conversion (error: m_medialControl->Run()(0x800004005 - Unspecified error)

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Sean Worsell

Yes, I know goof-ups like me must make you wanna pull your hair out. I've pulled mine out already. I'll test some with various settings and post my final solution later. Sigh.

EDIT: I'm getting Errors when I try to do this file to file conversion (error: m_medialControl->Run()(0x800004005 - Unspecified error)

It worked before, seems odd that it doesn't now. Some components may not be registered, so try Start Menu -> CineForm/Tools/Register Components if that doesn't work, reinstall, reboot and reinstall NEO.

I about to be on the road.

[Sean Worsell]

Thanks David for your time. Restarting did correct the errors.

Now I'm trying various configurations: with Convert to 1920x1080 with Aspect Same as Source checked, unchecked, and Cropping checked and unchecked. Takes a bit to try them all.

EDIT: when converting from the 1440x1080 QT HD file to a 1920x1080 QT HD file, I see NO difference between any of the following:

1) with Keep source aspect ratio + Centercrop non 16x9
2) with Keep source aspect ratio only
3) with Centercrop non 16x9 only
4) with nothing checked at all

[David Newman]

Add what do you see? I'm not near a CineForm equiped PC. Are you getting pillarboxing? You probably should just convert your source media again with the setting at 1920x1080. I know AVI to AVI and AVI to MOV with these operations work fine, as I do that daily. It seems the MOV is missing the pixel aspect ratio in the header that is causing issue for Avid and our own HDlink for MOV to MOV conversion.

[Chris Swartz]

Sean,

My workflow for Avid is.

Capture to computer using HDLINK and upscale the video right there to 1920 and pull out the pull down frames using Neo HD. Once you have the files captured, use MPEG Streamclip to convert the files to Avid DNxHD QT files at whatever datarate you want and you can batch this process. Then use a quick import into Avid using a 1920x1080 23.98 project preset. That should get you into the avid correctly, and relatively quickly without having to monitor the whole thing on import. Are you using Xpress Pro or Media Composer.

Good luck

Chris