CineForm HDMI Recorder Concept Posted

[E.J. Sadler]

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

You know, I thought going with an HDMI-to-HD-SDI converter would work too but the only one I've been able to find needs to be plugged into a power outlet. If someone could point to one that doesn't need to be plugged in, then I'd be with a lot of you on an HD-SDI version first.

Here you go -

http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_...DConnectMI.htm

[Zack Birlew]

Nope, sorry man, checked it out and it still needs to be plugged in and, I'm not sure, I just took a quick look around in the manual, but it looked like it needed to use a computer application for it to work.

[E.J. Sadler]

You need to connect it to a computer to set the options, but not to run.

As for 'plugged in', I thought you meant AC.

[E.J. Sadler]

But speaking of power, it would be nice to see this unit with the flexibility of the Nebtek monitors, with screw mounts for all major battery mounts, and a 2.1mm DC for power in. That way it will work for anybody's set-up just by adding the mount you need or running off existing battery power taps.

[Alex Raskin]

OK, Sony has a HDV camcorder HVR-Z7U now that records to CF cards on-board.

This is one step in the right direction, although apparently, it still records m2t's (after compression.)

Next step: can Sony please wake up and adopt the Cineform codec to record in this format, again on-board, Before Compression, on solid media?

[Richard Leadbetter]

Good luck with that! I'd expect Sony to introduce yet another proprietary system if they ever moved in that direction.

[Robert R. Schultz]

There are some things that I would like some clarification on:

1. Will the SOLID use any portable USB 2.0 hard drive? Will it work with the drives that use the USB port to power them? Is it possible to connect more than one drive at a time?

2. Will the SOLID upconvert/upsample the 8-bit uncompressed HD stream from my V1U to 10-bit Cineform HD? In real time?

3. Will the SOLID upscale 1440x1080 to 1920x1080, or is that still to be determined? Will it upscale in real time? (I would really like to have my video upscaled to 1920x1080)

4. How would you select to record in different frame rates such 24p or 30p, on the camera, the SOLID, or both?

5. I have a Mac and I use Final Cut Pro (version 5.1.4), what Cineform codec would I have to purchase so that I could edit in Cineform without converting to any other inferior codec to edit?

Also, this isn't so important, but is the white exterior of the SOLID going to stay white? Or is black going to be optional? (I would much rather have black)

The name SOLID sounds like something that RED would come up with. Why not name it The Cineform Medium I?

Thanks and have a Happy New Year!

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Robert R. Schultz

1. Will the SOLID use any portable USB 2.0 hard drive? Will it work with the drives that use the USB port to power them? Is it possible to connect more than one drive at a time?

Everything that can handle to data rates. If it intend to power any device that meets USB power specs. Hubs, aren't supported, so with the intended one USB slot, multiple devices simultaneously are unlikely.

2. Will the SOLID upconvert/upsample the 8-bit uncompressed HD stream from my V1U to 10-bit Cineform HD? In real time?

Yes. The is the standard behavior for all CineForm codecs.

3. Will the SOLID upscale 1440x1080 to 1920x1080, or is that still to be determined? Will it upscale in real time? (I would really like to have my video upscaled to 1920x1080)

Unnecessary, all HMDI cameras output 1920x1080 not 1440x1080.

4. How would you select to record in different frame rates such 24p or 30p, on the camera, the SOLID, or both?

The DDR will record what is output over HMDI. 60i to 24p pulldown removal will be a user controlable option.

5. I have a Mac and I use Final Cut Pro (version 5.1.4), what Cineform codec would I have to purchase so that I could edit in Cineform without converting to any other inferior codec to edit?

You can edit with the CineForm decoder for free. However NEO HD/2K/4K would be recomended for master and effects work.

Also, this isn't so important, but is the white exterior of the SOLID going to stay white? Or is black going to be optional? (I would much rather have black)

Undecided.

The name SOLID sounds like something that RED would come up with. Why not name it The Cineform Medium I?

Is that a compliment? :) SOLID was a joke name give by a forum user. We haven't official release the products name. SOLID might stick.

[Robert R. Schultz]

Thanks for your quick reply. I spent several hours yesterday reading the whole forum about the SOLID. I have read so many articles and e-books that say that the V1U outputs 1440x1080 through the HDMI port, but they never have used the HDMI port on any of these cameras. So I'll believe you and I'm very happy to here that my camera can output 1920x1080.

[John McGinley]

One alternate suggestion for the Audio in, is 1/4" TRS jacks, they're small form factor, balanced line, fairly rugged, less prone to interference than RCA, and easily converted to XLR, RCA, or 1/8" mini if that floats your boat. But the big selling feature is the reassuring snap that you get when you plug them in, that you don't get with RCA plugs. XLR obviously has a nice locking mechanism, but if it's cost prohibitive, 1/4" TRS would be the way to go.

A cheap alternative to the flip function would be to have mounting screw holes on both sides of the monitor so you could just mount it "upside down" if necessary. Flip the overlay menu on the screen instead of the image.

If a component version ended up being $100 more like the difference between the Intensity and Intensity Pro, I don't think anyone could really complain about that.

I think the name of it should be the CineForm F**K YEAH! :-)

that might be a tough marketing issue though.

[Seth Bloombaum]

Just found this thread - hats off to Cineform for recognizing the value of the user community in developing product functionality.

My background is in broadcast/corporate production... cameras costing many tens of thousands of dollars are commonly used. Like many in that market, I don't want to own such a camera, because the next project will require something different - I'll rent.

However (like many in that market), I do own a V1 and am giving serious consideration to an EX1 in the future, cameras that can work well on lower-budget and self-funded projects.

Speaking for this type of user, there are a few pro/broadcast features that make it much more likely that I'd integrate the "Solid" in more projects.

Originally Posted by Alexander Ibrahim

If you are going to include analog audio don't mess around, it has to be XLR.

Think about it a $2000 USD device that is intended to upgrade a 4:2:0 8 bit camera to 10 bit 4:2:2.

The people who understand what that means won't want to use RCA for production audio- except maybe for low end confidence monitoring. I suppose those who plan on using his as a playback/presentation device might use RCA outputs sometimes.

If you want audio i/o then do it it right- otherwise its better if you just don't do it at all.

So... I suggest Mini XLR....

...Again, if you can't make XLR work, then don't bother with analog i/o on this unit.

Couldn't agree more with Alexander. A robust balanced connector for low-impedance audio interfaces with the pro world. Anything else doesn't. There's not a lot of wiggle room here - audio is extremely important to working pros; including the industry-standard connection system helps open up a larger market.

Will the Cineform file container support multichannel audio? Getting camera audio in 2 channels and 2 more channels with mixer output line-level and A-D would be pretty cool.

Originally Posted by Brian Standing

...Power options: A slot to attach a Sony battery would be great. Even better, how about adaptor plate that fits between the camera battery and the camera, with a small cable out to power the recorder? It may be worth taking a look at Sony's new CF recorder that will fit over the NPF-970 battery of the new Z7 camera to see how it accesses the camera battery for power, and design something compatible. Failing that, I'd like to see a standard 4-pin XLR power attachment, and a wide range of voltage requirements, so it could be powered off of any power source...

Likewise, a robust power system is essential. The Sony prosumer battery system is very good and not very expensive (good enough for Sound Devices)... and compatibility with 11-30v 4-pin XLR systems also brings Solid into the world that pro/broadcast people understand.

Timecode!!! I tried to read every post in this thread and could find nobody talking about timecode! My understanding is that camera timecode is not present in the HDMI interface spec. (?) PLEASE don't have every clip start at "0:00.00" and call it good. You'd cut off a significant piece of the market that uses timecode for sync of multiple cameras (that'd be sales of multiple Solids!) and dual-system sound. Ideally there would be a jammable TC generator that would timestamp each clip.

Finally, and I know this has been touched on above, there are lots of event videographers out there who need media for 4 hours or so. CF is great, don't get me wrong, but only represents the piece of the market that either work on short-form projects, or can dump to laptop frequently (not as portable as some need), or can afford lots of CF. An internal or strap-on hard drive would be essential for many purchasers.

[Alex Raskin]

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

An internal or strap-on hard drive would be essential for many purchasers.

And here's the name for this product: Strap-On Solid!

Hmmm...

Smells of Steely Dan... :)

[Jason Burkhimer]

**SIGNS UP** for beta testing!

[Herman Van Deventer]

Anybody related to Oprah or Bono ? Please ask them to donate towards
African Filmmakers.

I need one of those / The HDSDI version.

Will send postcard of me, shooting whatever ..........

[Jeffery Haas]

Originally Posted by David Taylor

Hi Guys,

We wanted to keep the momentum moving on the proposed CineForm HDMI Recorder. I've posted a page on our website with the proposed feature specs and a conceptual diagram: http://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm. You cannot navigate to the page from our website other than through this direct link.

We'd enjoy any comments....

David.

Put a Firewire port (6-pin) on it and I will sell both my Firestores tomorrow.
EDIT: Okay okay, I'd actually go for it with component I/O too...either way, just don't
forget the folks sitting on the border with the 110's.

Jeffery Haas
shooter-editor-JVC 110 owner
Mansfield TX