hdv/hd aja/cineform workflow based

[Luis Ignacio]

Hi dvinfo user´s,
I´m going to change my dv workflow for hdv/hd, and i would like to have some tips about it. For the next 2 years (here in brasil HDTV it´s just getting starter) i will downsize all the HDV/HD work to SD and the output will be on mini-dv, dvcam, beta and DVD. I do most corporate work and some tv comercial for broadcast
I´m thinking about this setup


Sony HDV Z1
Focus FS-4PRO HD 80gb
VTR sony M25
Aja xena LHe
Adobe production suite
Cineform prospect HD or 2k
Redgiant magicbulletsuite (colorista/magicbullet/instanHD)
Xeon windows based editing system (DYI videoguys setup)

I have some doubts.

Cineform Prospect HD/2k ,
-if i buy prospect 2k could i use the 12bit RGB 4:4:4 on HDV/HD projects?
-it´s posible to use Focus FS-4 HDPRO with cineform and all his features?
-What is the best way to work with cineform prospect HD/2k in two computers? I will have my Xeon/aja station to work for editing ingest and output but i also have another computer not so great that could be use for color correction, after.... Do i need to buy another prospect? or only with neo it would be ok?
-I don´t understand the cineform relationship with aja? can i buy cineform and xena OEM togheter at cineform site? or do i need to buy xena at aja resseler?

Sony Z1 / VTR m25
- i´m thinking about this setup for the price. I heard that panasonic codec DVCPROHD it´s better than sony mpeg2? is this truth?

Aja Xena LHe
- It´s better than blackmagic cards and works great with cineform, correct?

Adobe suite
-It is my choice because i don´t like MAc products and AVID it´s not good for me

RedGiant
-Having cineform/aja i don´t really need intant HD and colorista..right? only magicbullet suite it wil be useful?

I will wait for the replys for the questions, all opinions are welcome. thanx for the help in advance and sorry for the wrong english writting :)
Luis

[David Newman]

>-if i buy prospect 2k could i use the 12bit RGB 4:4:4 on HDV/HD projects?

Yes. You can then create 12-bit 4:4:4 master, we can be helpful for new graphics/composite elements. Also Prospect 2K support alpha channel encoding, so you can also create 4:4:4:4 from your 3D tools or compositors to speed the creaation of complex layering.

>-it´s posible to use Focus FS-4 HDPRO with cineform and all his features?

While I don't know what all his features might be, we have many customers using firewire DDRs with CineForm and batch converting their contents with HDLink.

>-What is the best way to work with cineform prospect HD/2k in two computers?

NEO allows for free decoder anywhere, so you may not need an additional P2K license. If you what to encode out of After Effect and NEO HD/2K would be efficient. If this only for occasional work, like have a license for a laptop, we issue a second activation for free upon polite requests.

>-I don´t understand the cineform relationship with aja? can i buy cineform and xena OEM togheter at cineform site? or do i need to buy xena at aja resseler?

We used to OEM, until AJA limited the features of the OEM cards, without price benefits to the customer. So just purchase a retail AJA card from the cheapest location, and Prosect HD/2K will work with that.

>- i´m thinking about this setup for the price. I heard that panasonic codec DVCPROHD it´s better than sony mpeg2? is this truth?

DVCPRO-HD is not great. We poke hole in it here : http://www.cineform.com/technology/H...lysis10bit.htm, however almost anything is better than MPEG2 for editing and mastering. If you had a P2 camera, than DVCPRO-HD is relevant, otherwise it shouldn't be in your workflow.

>- It´s better than blackmagic cards and works great with cineform, correct?

Yes we like AJA for PHD/P2K yes. Add will like Blackmagic for NEO captures.

>-Having cineform/aja i don´t really need intant HD and colorista..right? only magicbullet suite it wil be useful?

You can use all those tools, they are just not real-time in P2K.

[Mike McCarthy]

You might want to look at the Sony V1 instead of the Z1. Similar, but should have better picture quality with higher resolution progressive imager. It also has a better 24p mode, which is fully supported be the Premiere/Prospect workflow you are investing it.

[Luis Ignacio]

Thank you David. I will go with prospect2k and AJA LHe, maybe in a near futere i buy neo 2k for the second computer.
Mike thanx, i really liked the Sony V1 24P. But here in brasil we are very far away from progessive setups and the HDMI out is not useful for aja/kona or VTR sony M25. Also it is less impressive for the client than the Z1 :)
Anyone else? observations..sugestionss....
Luis

[Ray Bell]

If you have the budget... I'd get the Sony EX cam over the Z1...

and as mentioned, there are lots of positives for the V1 cam over the Z1 too.

Not that the Z1 is any slouch.... but it maybe starting to show its age abit.

[Carl Middleton]

I've used the Z1 extensively, and had some time to use the V1 as well while on location a few months back. The owner of the V1 is a seasoned producer, and we had some good chats about the benefits and drawbacks of each over the other.

Our conclusion basically came down to the V1 being better for film related projects, 24p, and generally any setup that you have time to configure the camera.

For run and gun, broadcast TV, and other setups requiring mobility and speed over progressive scan and 24p, we both liked the Z1... easier to get to all your controls in a snap. I wouldn't trade it for the world. :) Well, at least until I can afford XDCam or higher.... or maybe even an H1.... =D

C

[Luis Ignacio]

Ray and Carl thanx for your inputs! XDcam H1 Ex... out of my budget. I will stay with the Z1 my work is more run and gun...brodcast..corporate! maybe during my free time(never...) i will try something artistic for festivals ..shortmovie, 24p i can get of the z1 on post.

[Carl Middleton]

Originally Posted by Luis Ignacio

Ray and Carl thanx for your inputs! XDcam H1 Ex... out of my budget. I will stay with the Z1 my work is more run and gun...brodcast..corporate! maybe during my free time(never...) i will try something artistic for festivals ..shortmovie, 24p i can get of the z1 on post.

I'm planning on trying to shoot with 50i->25p->24p workflow here soon, just to give it a shot. I've heard promising things about shooting in PAL's 50i to get a final 24p out of it. Worth trying, anyways :)

C

[Luis Ignacio]

i saw something about this here at dv info... give it a search! if i´m not mistake there is a problem with lighting souce being 60hz... and the camera runing 50, give you light flicker! I think that y 3 months maybe i wiil be testing this workflow you mentioned on my new Z1 :)

[Stephen Armour]

Originally Posted by Luis Ignacio

i saw something about this here at dv info... give it a search! if i´m not mistake there is a problem with lighting souce being 60hz... and the camera runing 50, give you light flicker! I think that y 3 months maybe i wiil be testing this workflow you mentioned on my new Z1 :)

Luis, the V1 really is a good cam for the money. We're using it in southern Brazil for long productions. We have a small new custom HDMI capture device (RIO) coming (in beta now) that uses NEO 2K to capture and compress/upscale in field from the V1 to 1920x1080. A very nice workflow and image! (More on that in January, sorry guys...)

CF workflow is very good too. For comp work, the 1920 x 1080 square pixel is great and makes it easy to do very nice downscaled output as well. We're saving our masters in the HD size on HDDs for when Brazil goes HD in a couple of years. Right now, it's DVD.

One caution though: you better have a good workstation motherboard and RAID to drive that much data! But quads are cheap and so are eSATA RAIDS so go for it!

Brasil precisa de HD...e quem chega primeiro...

[Luis Ignacio]

Hi stephen! thanx for your reply. So do you think tha it´s better go with the V1 over the Z1? why? because of the 1920x1080? and HDMI capture RIO ( i read your development thread) ?
When you say esata raids.. do you mean SATA raid enclousures with esata connections?ay job here in são paulo is at teleimage/casablanca with 2K and HD Digital intemidiate, and the rest of the day at home with my little production place :)
Here at work they are already doing publicity in HD looking for the next year

HD agora vai bombar no brasil... e quero estar entre os primeiros

[Stephen Armour]

Originally Posted by Luis Ignacio

Hi stephen! thanx for your reply. So do you think tha it´s better go with the V1 over the Z1? why? because of the 1920x1080? and HDMI capture RIO ( i read your development thread) ?
When you say esata raids.. do you mean SATA raid enclousures with esata connections?ay job here in são paulo is at teleimage/casablanca with 2K and HD Digital intemidiate, and the rest of the day at home with my little production place :)
Here at work they are already doing publicity in HD looking for the next year

HD agora vai bombar no brasil... e quero estar entre os primeiros

Each cam has it's pluses and minuses. But for the money, the V1 seems to be a pretty good deal. Actually, either will do a great job, but I like the V1 personally. You can take advantage of the HDMI out, especially if you use it in a studio, or with greenscreen with an Intensity card.

As I stated earlier, we have a small custom portable solution (might actually be available to others very soon) that gives that port some real value.

If we had the $$ now, we'd probably get a Sony EX1, but then we'd have to come up with a new portable SDI solution...ahhhhhh , but that's another story....stay tuned...

As to the RAIDs, yes, the eSATA solutions work very well, especially if you have good workstation level motherboard. They allow us to do some pretty high quality stuff using Cineform/PP3 and the V1 output. That is both for internal eSATA RAID and what we are using for our longterm storage (single plugin eSATA drives).

It's incredible what a few people can do with the right tools now. You get that home studio working well and you'll give your own workplace some competition soon (don't tell them I said that...).

Vale a pena investir em HD hoje. Amanha pode ser muito tarde...