CF playback for tradeshow at DVinfo.net

Stuart Brontman · October 3rd, 2007, 03:53 PM

I posted something similar over on the HD/HDV acquisition board... My client needs to show an HD project I'm producing for them at an upcoming tradeshow. They want the 8 minute video to automatically loop at full 1080 resolution. Is the best way to do this with a powerful laptop, an external fast 7200 rpm drive, and Cineform Prospect (or Aspect) HD? If so, what software would I use for looping playback - CF's player or an NLE?

I already capture with Prospect HD and edit in full 1080 resolution. I'm concerned that burning to Blu-ray will have compatibility issues with available players (well-documented problems with BD-R playback on existing units), not to mention the fear that a consumer level Blu-ray player will not hold up to 8 hours a day of looping playback.

Stuart

David Newman · October 3rd, 2007, 04:13 PM

CineForm will work great this, even using our free decoder (download NEO Player for your fast laptop.) The playback tool to use is Media Player Classic, which will play fullscreen and loop forever.

NEO http://www.cineform.com/products/Dow...layerStart.htm
MPC http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...er_Classic.htm

Salah Baker · October 3rd, 2007, 04:29 PM

I do something like this everyday with CF files.
You just need to know the specs of said laptop for decoding.
I pass files to an external USB Maxtor mini one touch that are not an issue for a Dell M65 all the time. At HIGH.
You encode at 4.4.4.(4) FS2 and expect playback on a lappy …it better be beeeeeefy.

Stuart Brontman · October 3rd, 2007, 04:43 PM

That's encouraging. It sounds like a powerful laptop will work. BTW, I'm encoding 4:2:2, not 4:4:4.

How about getting it to a large screen 1080 display? I would assume I'll need some sort of HDMI out (or at least component). Maybe a small "cube" PC with an Intensity card for the HDMI???

David Newman · October 3rd, 2007, 04:56 PM

I was assuming 4:2:2 not 4:4:4. Some laptop come with HDMI out now, so you could use a DVI to HDMI convertor. The Intensity card could be used, however I don't know the playback tools to try.

Stuart Brontman · October 3rd, 2007, 05:01 PM

My only concern with the laptop and the Intensity is the results of Cineform's earlier tests using a laptop, the Magma PCI-E adapter, and the Intensity for 1080i. I know there are some small form factor PCs now that probably can offer some pretty high performance. I guess I'd better take a look...

Thanks.

Stuart

Chris Swartz · October 3rd, 2007, 07:14 PM

Just buy a laptop with an nvidia card and a secondary monitor port. Set the video card to play on the primary laptop screen and let the secondary display play only full screen video overlay. I'm doing this with a desktop right now for some HD loop footage, it works great. Make sure the graphics accelerator is at least 7600 Go or better and the more the ram the better as well. Should be able to get VGA, or DVI out.

Chris

Ray Bell · October 3rd, 2007, 07:34 PM

I'd get a Sony PS3 and a LCD or Plasma screen the size required for your display...

The PS3 has blu ray support, DVD support, HDMI outputs, a built in Hard drive for HD footage or USB ports for external outputs.

Its cheap for the amount of hardware you get, its portable enough and its output is great.

It will loop your footage for days....

Stuart Brontman · October 3rd, 2007, 07:39 PM

The PS3 sounds like an interesting option. What format would you put the finished video in on the hard drive and how would you get it to loop continuously? I wonder if a Cineform HD file would work? Is the unit capable of playing full 1080 from the HD? I assume it is considering Sony hypes it as a solution for HD entertainment.

Regarding the laptop option, how powerful a system would you need to playback 1080i footage without stutters or "hiccups"?

Thanks for everyone's ideas.

Stuart

Richard Leadbetter · October 4th, 2007, 03:00 AM

It would be far cheaper to build a Shuttle as a portable CineForm player. I would recommend the SG33G5 model with an E6750 CPU. You'll be paying peanuts for a 5kg system with an inbuilt HDMI output, and the ability to play back just about any CineForm file with no fuss whatsoever. It even has eSATA ports.

With PS3 you'd need to put your footage onto Blu-ray disc or encode as a high-bitrate h.264 MP4. Amazingly I've run 20mbps h.264 files on PS3 direct from DVD-R. But no, it won't run CineForm AVIs natively.

Ray Bell · October 4th, 2007, 05:47 AM

The shuttle isn't a bad option but you can't build one with the same options
as the PS3 for the same price...

I use DVDit HDPRO to build a blu ray disk... and choose loop as the option...

The format is just a standard mpg output from a Cineform AVI... all you do
is drop the AVI into the project...

Or if you don't want the DVDit software the Premiere will output the correct file format for you also...

Richard Leadbetter · October 4th, 2007, 06:57 AM

It all depends on whether you want to run native CineForm AVIs or not, basically. But certainly my material looks pretty awful exported to MPEG2 - nowhere near as clean as the CineForm original, and if the object of the exercise is to showcase your HD material at maximum quality, a PC of some description is the requirement.

Peter Ferling · October 4th, 2007, 06:54 PM

As much as I like cineform, our installed base of corporate labtops is lacking in playing CF files. I've used workstations and rentals. However, I also play straight m2t (the hvd files) on an avel2 linkplayer (the JVC unit). It also plays windows media HD. My last three trade shows I used 720p windows media HD via Dell inspirons on 720p HD monitors.

When we upgrade to dual-core laptops (should be soon), I'll definetely put CF media to the test and avoid one more post encode.

(Funny, with the Blue-ray disk and HD-DVD wars, I've never considered using either).

Graham Hickling · October 4th, 2007, 10:35 PM

This doesn't relate to playing CFHD files per se, but anyone reading this thread who would be satisfied with playing high-bitrate mpg or m2t files should consider DViCO's Tivx M-4000PA. At $250-ish it's way cheaper than a PS3; it's much smaller and has better playback quality than the Linkplayer2 that I had previously; and it's hard-drive based rather than optical disk based, which for a trade show might be convenient.

Incidentally, CFHD exported back to HDV-spec m2t files shouldn't look "awful" - after all that's the same spec the raw footage was recorded in and the cineform files don't somehow magically create extra quality.

David Taylor · October 4th, 2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

...and the cineform files don't somehow magically create extra quality.

Graham, don't burst the illusion - after all, it is "magic".... :-)

October 3rd, 2007, 03:53 PM	#1
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	CF playback for tradeshow I posted something similar over on the HD/HDV acquisition board... My client needs to show an HD project I'm producing for them at an upcoming tradeshow. They want the 8 minute video to automatically loop at full 1080 resolution. Is the best way to do this with a powerful laptop, an external fast 7200 rpm drive, and Cineform Prospect (or Aspect) HD? If so, what software would I use for looping playback - CF's player or an NLE? I already capture with Prospect HD and edit in full 1080 resolution. I'm concerned that burning to Blu-ray will have compatibility issues with available players (well-documented problems with BD-R playback on existing units), not to mention the fear that a consumer level Blu-ray player will not hold up to 8 hours a day of looping playback. Stuart

October 3rd, 2007, 04:13 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	CineForm will work great this, even using our free decoder (download NEO Player for your fast laptop.) The playback tool to use is Media Player Classic, which will play fullscreen and loop forever. NEO http://www.cineform.com/products/Dow...layerStart.htm MPC http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...er_Classic.htm __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 3rd, 2007, 04:56 PM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I was assuming 4:2:2 not 4:4:4. Some laptop come with HDMI out now, so you could use a DVI to HDMI convertor. The Intensity card could be used, however I don't know the playback tools to try. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 4th, 2007, 03:00 AM	#10
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	It would be far cheaper to build a Shuttle as a portable CineForm player. I would recommend the SG33G5 model with an E6750 CPU. You'll be paying peanuts for a 5kg system with an inbuilt HDMI output, and the ability to play back just about any CineForm file with no fuss whatsoever. It even has eSATA ports. With PS3 you'd need to put your footage onto Blu-ray disc or encode as a high-bitrate h.264 MP4. Amazingly I've run 20mbps h.264 files on PS3 direct from DVD-R. But no, it won't run CineForm AVIs natively. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

October 4th, 2007, 06:57 AM	#12
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	It all depends on whether you want to run native CineForm AVIs or not, basically. But certainly my material looks pretty awful exported to MPEG2 - nowhere near as clean as the CineForm original, and if the object of the exercise is to showcase your HD material at maximum quality, a PC of some description is the requirement. __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

October 3rd, 2007, 04:29 PM	#3
Salah Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Patterson La. Posts: 207	I do something like this everyday with CF files. You just need to know the specs of said laptop for decoding. I pass files to an external USB Maxtor mini one touch that are not an issue for a Dell M65 all the time. At HIGH. You encode at 4.4.4.(4) FS2 and expect playback on a lappy …it better be beeeeeefy.

October 3rd, 2007, 04:43 PM	#4
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	That's encouraging. It sounds like a powerful laptop will work. BTW, I'm encoding 4:2:2, not 4:4:4. How about getting it to a large screen 1080 display? I would assume I'll need some sort of HDMI out (or at least component). Maybe a small "cube" PC with an Intensity card for the HDMI???

October 3rd, 2007, 05:01 PM	#6
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	My only concern with the laptop and the Intensity is the results of Cineform's earlier tests using a laptop, the Magma PCI-E adapter, and the Intensity for 1080i. I know there are some small form factor PCs now that probably can offer some pretty high performance. I guess I'd better take a look... Thanks. Stuart

October 3rd, 2007, 07:14 PM	#7
Chris Swartz Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 58	Just buy a laptop with an nvidia card and a secondary monitor port. Set the video card to play on the primary laptop screen and let the secondary display play only full screen video overlay. I'm doing this with a desktop right now for some HD loop footage, it works great. Make sure the graphics accelerator is at least 7600 Go or better and the more the ram the better as well. Should be able to get VGA, or DVI out. Chris

October 3rd, 2007, 07:34 PM	#8
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	I'd get a Sony PS3 and a LCD or Plasma screen the size required for your display... The PS3 has blu ray support, DVD support, HDMI outputs, a built in Hard drive for HD footage or USB ports for external outputs. Its cheap for the amount of hardware you get, its portable enough and its output is great. It will loop your footage for days....

October 3rd, 2007, 07:39 PM	#9
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	The PS3 sounds like an interesting option. What format would you put the finished video in on the hard drive and how would you get it to loop continuously? I wonder if a Cineform HD file would work? Is the unit capable of playing full 1080 from the HD? I assume it is considering Sony hypes it as a solution for HD entertainment. Regarding the laptop option, how powerful a system would you need to playback 1080i footage without stutters or "hiccups"? Thanks for everyone's ideas. Stuart

October 4th, 2007, 05:47 AM	#11
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	The shuttle isn't a bad option but you can't build one with the same options as the PS3 for the same price... I use DVDit HDPRO to build a blu ray disk... and choose loop as the option... The format is just a standard mpg output from a Cineform AVI... all you do is drop the AVI into the project... Or if you don't want the DVDit software the Premiere will output the correct file format for you also...

October 4th, 2007, 06:54 PM	#13
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	As much as I like cineform, our installed base of corporate labtops is lacking in playing CF files. I've used workstations and rentals. However, I also play straight m2t (the hvd files) on an avel2 linkplayer (the JVC unit). It also plays windows media HD. My last three trade shows I used 720p windows media HD via Dell inspirons on 720p HD monitors. When we upgrade to dual-core laptops (should be soon), I'll definetely put CF media to the test and avoid one more post encode. (Funny, with the Blue-ray disk and HD-DVD wars, I've never considered using either). __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

October 4th, 2007, 10:35 PM	#14
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	This doesn't relate to playing CFHD files per se, but anyone reading this thread who would be satisfied with playing high-bitrate mpg or m2t files should consider DViCO's Tivx M-4000PA. At $250-ish it's way cheaper than a PS3; it's much smaller and has better playback quality than the Linkplayer2 that I had previously; and it's hard-drive based rather than optical disk based, which for a trade show might be convenient. Incidentally, CFHD exported back to HDV-spec m2t files shouldn't look "awful" - after all that's the same spec the raw footage was recorded in and the cineform files don't somehow magically create extra quality.