CineForm and Premiere Pro CS3 / After Effects

Syd Weinstein · January 14th, 2008, 08:55 PM

Why does Cineform show the image correct in still, but when in 'motion' (play) it shows it much lighter? Its not a real problem, just courious

Joacim Boive · January 21st, 2008, 03:40 AM

I'm having problems with the latest version of Prospect 2k and AE 8.01.

Just wanted to have confirmation that people have this combination up and running.

Thanks!

/Jocke

David Newman · January 21st, 2008, 10:05 AM

Yes, people do, and we at CineForm now test primarily with CS3 components. Please submit a trouble ticket at www.cineform.com/support

Joacim Boive · January 21st, 2008, 10:56 AM

Ok, sounds promising.

I reformated and did a fresh install with just AE and the latest version och Prospect 2K and still it doesn't work.

But I've filed a support request yesterday, just hope to get some feedback soon.

Thanks!

/Jocke

Luis Ignacio · January 22nd, 2008, 08:27 AM

Hi dvinfo comunity. I would like to have some tips on video monitoring for my worksation, that´s what i have.

WINXP pro sp2
Quad core 2.4
Asus P5B premium
3Gb ram
Intensity Pro
ATI sapphire X1950pro 512mb (02 DVI out and 01 S-video)
Hard disk sata02 01 system / 01 render / 01 audio / 03 or 04 raid0 for media
Monitor LG 22´ widescreen LCD 1650x1050
Next buy : cineform ProspectHD

I don´t have the system working right now, just waitting to buy the case and 2nd monitor..
My question is. What is the best way to monitor? I know that with cineform on premiere i can´t monitor over intensity pro. What about my s-video out on the ATI sapphire?could i connect a 14´CRT tv (i don´t have the money for a broadcast monitor)? or it´s better to use my second DVI-out for a FULLHD monitor (CRT or LCD)? Can i do both?.
Here in Brasil everything we do in HD for now will be downsample to SD so i need to have an interlaced CRT TV to view the result before go to DVD or tape(mini-dv,beta, dvcam).
Any tips? options? questions?

Rick Thornquist · January 23rd, 2008, 10:17 PM

I'm having the strangest situation with Adobe Ultra CS3 (their chromakeyer) and Cineform.

I have a clip that was originally captured uncompressed (from an HV20 with a Blackmagic Intensity). I deinterlaced it and saved it in cineform with VirtualDub.

I brought the clip into Ultra, did my chromakeying magic, and then output the result in cineform. The problem? The output is somewhat soft - it's not as sharp as the input clip and has a bit of a reddish tinge.

Here's where it gets stranger. I took my clip and used VirtualDub to reconvert it back to uncompresed. I brought this uncompressed version back into Ultra. I output the result in cineform using the exact same keying settings and guess what? The output is sharp as a tack!

I'm baffled. Can anyone think of a reason why the cineform version of the input creates the softer output file while the uncompressed one is sharp?

- Rick

Paul Cascio · January 24th, 2008, 07:22 AM

Rick, what were your output setting sin Ultra? My guess is the answer lies there.

Jose Ortiz · January 24th, 2008, 09:58 AM

Rick
Im PHD user
I also noticed a quality change in the last couple of versions. But in my case is even more soft when I tray to convert the final exported cineform avi file to another format using any other third party software. Before it use to be very sharp. Now even my primary convertion format software (TMPGENC) crash with the CF exported files. That is an issue that I already disscused in this forum.

Rick Thornquist · January 24th, 2008, 01:19 PM

Paul -

I tried changing the field order in the output settings to the three different settings. All got the same results.

I don't think it's the output, though - I'm pretty sure it's the input. You can see the difference in the preview window before the clip is even output. The cineform clip is soft and the uncompressed clip is sharp.

I tried compressing the clip with two other codecs - Blackmagic MJPEG and Microsoft Video 1 (there's a relic for ya!) - and loaded each of them. Each of them was sharp (excepting artifacts, of course).

I tried both interlaced and progressive versions of the cineform clip - same results. I tried creating the cineform clip with VirtualDub and another with Premiere - same results.

The problem seems to boil down to the interaction between cineform and Ultra. It may be time to submit a ticket on this one.

- Rick

Frederic Leclair · January 25th, 2008, 09:48 AM

My problem:
On a particular project, I need to re-render everything everytime I re-open project even after I have saved and closed project.

I also experience SERIOUS ERROR crashes or simply PP3 freezes while trying to render whole timeline, I need to render in chunks.

The project file is a single timeline 2:45 minutes long with only the clip on timeline in project; it's CFHD low res clips (not corrupted) and there's quite a lot of CF cross-fades in timeline (it's a trailer) with about 5-6 clip color corrected that need to be rendered.

My specs are:
PP3 + AspectHD v5.2 build 105
dualmonitors with Ultramon 2.6
AMD ATHLON x2 4600+
4 GB SDRAM2 733 Mghz (dual channels)
MATROX APVe
ASUS SLI-DELUXE
Sound Blaster X-FI

I currently have a ticket open with CF, but I get a small hint of help every 7 days or so. I need to fix this quickly.

Jose Ortiz · January 25th, 2008, 11:30 AM

I seen this before>

The workarounds for me are the following:

1 Select all the material in the timeline and copy it to a new fresh timeline. Then you notice that red line goes back to the green line.
I think that this is more a PPcs3 issue.

2 And usually if Im going to render a lot of footage in the timeline I try to save/close and open again Ppro. Then rendering don't crash.

At least this works for me.

Kujtim Ereqi · January 27th, 2008, 01:49 PM

Is SpeedGrade HD supporting real time play of cineform raw files from a Si 2K camera?
How can I export a cineform premiere pro project to Speed Grade HD?

David Newman · January 27th, 2008, 05:01 PM

I haven't used the new Speedgrade with CineForm integrated yet, just haven't had time to try it out. Iridas is sharing a both with CineForm at this year's NAB, so I plan to get my training from the best. So currently your questions might be best directed toward Iridas.

Mike McCarthy · January 28th, 2008, 12:03 PM

The only way to get a Cineform RAW project into Speedgrade is to use an EDL. Any export from Premiere or AE will lose the RAW aspect, which is currently very important since Cineform RAW can playback 2K in realtime in Speedgrade on a high end system. On the otherhand, I have yet to see the 422 and 444 varients of Cineform playback in realtime in HD or 2K. I will try to keep you updated as I continue to test it.

Carlos Bustamante · February 5th, 2008, 05:25 AM

After I installed Aspect HD v5.2 build 106 I found that PPCS3 ddidn’t recognize my SD cameras. HDV works okay. Uninstalled Aspect HD and PPCS3 Capture recognized MiniDV cameras and works as usual. Has anybody else encountered this?

January 14th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#121
Syd Weinstein New Boot Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: HV, PA Posts: 7	Premiere Play Alpha different than still Why does Cineform show the image correct in still, but when in 'motion' (play) it shows it much lighter? Its not a real problem, just courious

January 21st, 2008, 03:40 AM	#122
Joacim Boive New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Posts: 13	Anybody running After Effects CS3 8.01 with Cineform? I'm having problems with the latest version of Prospect 2k and AE 8.01. Just wanted to have confirmation that people have this combination up and running. Thanks! /Jocke

January 21st, 2008, 10:05 AM	#123
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, people do, and we at CineForm now test primarily with CS3 components. Please submit a trouble ticket at www.cineform.com/support __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 22nd, 2008, 08:27 AM	#125
Luis Ignacio Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: São Paulo - Brasil Posts: 36	Premiere CS3 Intensity PRO and Cineform Prospect HD = video monitor Hi dvinfo comunity. I would like to have some tips on video monitoring for my worksation, that´s what i have. WINXP pro sp2 Quad core 2.4 Asus P5B premium 3Gb ram Intensity Pro ATI sapphire X1950pro 512mb (02 DVI out and 01 S-video) Hard disk sata02 01 system / 01 render / 01 audio / 03 or 04 raid0 for media Monitor LG 22´ widescreen LCD 1650x1050 Next buy : cineform ProspectHD I don´t have the system working right now, just waitting to buy the case and 2nd monitor.. My question is. What is the best way to monitor? I know that with cineform on premiere i can´t monitor over intensity pro. What about my s-video out on the ATI sapphire?could i connect a 14´CRT tv (i don´t have the money for a broadcast monitor)? or it´s better to use my second DVI-out for a FULLHD monitor (CRT or LCD)? Can i do both?. Here in Brasil everything we do in HD for now will be downsample to SD so i need to have an interlaced CRT TV to view the result before go to DVD or tape(mini-dv,beta, dvcam). Any tips? options? questions?

January 23rd, 2008, 10:17 PM	#126
Rick Thornquist Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 41	Adobe Ultra CS3 and Cineform I'm having the strangest situation with Adobe Ultra CS3 (their chromakeyer) and Cineform. I have a clip that was originally captured uncompressed (from an HV20 with a Blackmagic Intensity). I deinterlaced it and saved it in cineform with VirtualDub. I brought the clip into Ultra, did my chromakeying magic, and then output the result in cineform. The problem? The output is somewhat soft - it's not as sharp as the input clip and has a bit of a reddish tinge. Here's where it gets stranger. I took my clip and used VirtualDub to reconvert it back to uncompresed. I brought this uncompressed version back into Ultra. I output the result in cineform using the exact same keying settings and guess what? The output is sharp as a tack! I'm baffled. Can anyone think of a reason why the cineform version of the input creates the softer output file while the uncompressed one is sharp? - Rick

January 21st, 2008, 10:56 AM	#124
Joacim Boive New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Posts: 13	Ok, sounds promising. I reformated and did a fresh install with just AE and the latest version och Prospect 2K and still it doesn't work. But I've filed a support request yesterday, just hope to get some feedback soon. Thanks! /Jocke

January 24th, 2008, 07:22 AM	#127
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Rick, what were your output setting sin Ultra? My guess is the answer lies there. __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

January 24th, 2008, 09:58 AM	#128
Jose Ortiz Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tampa Florida Posts: 347	Rick Im PHD user I also noticed a quality change in the last couple of versions. But in my case is even more soft when I tray to convert the final exported cineform avi file to another format using any other third party software. Before it use to be very sharp. Now even my primary convertion format software (TMPGENC) crash with the CF exported files. That is an issue that I already disscused in this forum.

January 24th, 2008, 01:19 PM	#129
Rick Thornquist Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 41	Paul - I tried changing the field order in the output settings to the three different settings. All got the same results. I don't think it's the output, though - I'm pretty sure it's the input. You can see the difference in the preview window before the clip is even output. The cineform clip is soft and the uncompressed clip is sharp. I tried compressing the clip with two other codecs - Blackmagic MJPEG and Microsoft Video 1 (there's a relic for ya!) - and loaded each of them. Each of them was sharp (excepting artifacts, of course). I tried both interlaced and progressive versions of the cineform clip - same results. I tried creating the cineform clip with VirtualDub and another with Premiere - same results. The problem seems to boil down to the interaction between cineform and Ultra. It may be time to submit a ticket on this one. - Rick

January 25th, 2008, 09:48 AM	#130
Frederic Leclair Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada Posts: 51	Need To Re-render Timeline Everytime I Re-open Pp3 My problem: On a particular project, I need to re-render everything everytime I re-open project even after I have saved and closed project. I also experience SERIOUS ERROR crashes or simply PP3 freezes while trying to render whole timeline, I need to render in chunks. The project file is a single timeline 2:45 minutes long with only the clip on timeline in project; it's CFHD low res clips (not corrupted) and there's quite a lot of CF cross-fades in timeline (it's a trailer) with about 5-6 clip color corrected that need to be rendered. My specs are: PP3 + AspectHD v5.2 build 105 dualmonitors with Ultramon 2.6 AMD ATHLON x2 4600+ 4 GB SDRAM2 733 Mghz (dual channels) MATROX APVe ASUS SLI-DELUXE Sound Blaster X-FI I currently have a ticket open with CF, but I get a small hint of help every 7 days or so. I need to fix this quickly.

January 25th, 2008, 11:30 AM	#131
Jose Ortiz Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tampa Florida Posts: 347	I seen this before> The workarounds for me are the following: 1 Select all the material in the timeline and copy it to a new fresh timeline. Then you notice that red line goes back to the green line. I think that this is more a PPcs3 issue. 2 And usually if Im going to render a lot of footage in the timeline I try to save/close and open again Ppro. Then rendering don't crash. At least this works for me.

January 27th, 2008, 01:49 PM	#132
Kujtim Ereqi New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kuwait City, Kuwait Posts: 9	cineform, iridas, premiere pro Is SpeedGrade HD supporting real time play of cineform raw files from a Si 2K camera? How can I export a cineform premiere pro project to Speed Grade HD?

January 27th, 2008, 05:01 PM	#133
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I haven't used the new Speedgrade with CineForm integrated yet, just haven't had time to try it out. Iridas is sharing a both with CineForm at this year's NAB, so I plan to get my training from the best. So currently your questions might be best directed toward Iridas. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 28th, 2008, 12:03 PM	#134
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	The only way to get a Cineform RAW project into Speedgrade is to use an EDL. Any export from Premiere or AE will lose the RAW aspect, which is currently very important since Cineform RAW can playback 2K in realtime in Speedgrade on a high end system. On the otherhand, I have yet to see the 422 and 444 varients of Cineform playback in realtime in HD or 2K. I will try to keep you updated as I continue to test it. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

February 5th, 2008, 05:25 AM	#135
Carlos Bustamante Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 26	No SD Capture in PPCS3 After I installed Aspect HD v5.2 build 106 I found that PPCS3 ddidn’t recognize my SD cameras. HDV works okay. Uninstalled Aspect HD and PPCS3 Capture recognized MiniDV cameras and works as usual. Has anybody else encountered this?