CineForm and Premiere Pro CS3 / After Effects

[Peter Ferling]

The forum was having issues, and I was not able to load these screen captures in the last post:

(Any recommendations as to where I can load some higher rez m2t clips?)

[Peter Ferling]

Dave, is there anything you'd like me to test?

I haven't attempted a "PK2" sized project. I'm assuming it's the upconvering of the 444 from HDSDI 422 that matters, as I'm limited to 1080i. My concerns about stability in my own work have been answered thus far.

For straight capture, cut and render (minus the mpeg stuff), I'm pleased with this 'beta', and it's easy to forget that it's still a 'beta'.

[Steven Gotz]

I use YouSendIt.com for large files.

[David Newman]

Peter, you been doing so many excellent tests it is hard to think what to add.

Have you tried the 4:4:4 export option with red titles on blue backward or any other difficult color combination. When do the same using 4:2:2, and compare with the source timeline. You can try the 4:2:2 -> 4:4:4 filter option to see it impact on the 4:2:2 material.

[Peter Ferling]

Steve, I'll check out yousendit.com thanks.

David, I'll give that a shot.

BTW, I ran into two issues:

In P2k (1080i HDSDI) with PPro3 project. Imported a 979x979 jpeg image, went to apply a title and noticed that the title tool is wayyyy slow in opening vs. an Adobe HD-SDI project (desktop). About a ten-seconds longer.

Also, toggling the safe margins button in the preview monitor more than three times caused the app to crash. I also had to reboot as the safe margin would not go away via the AJA on the external monitor. It was stuck in perpetual memory. The video would redraw correctly, and yet the margins remained on the monitor.

PPro3 reflects the wrong data for image pixel depth (that's already been reported). I have not heard anything about the large tiff issues from Adobe either.

[Matthew Pugerude]

I use you send it to send clients Clipnote previews it works flawlessly, Just like Cineform. Even given the little bugs that Peter has found in the new CS3 prospect workflow.

Peter what are your Computer specs?

[Peter Ferling]

Matthew, I use a BOXX 7400 with dualcore opteron 270's, 4gigs ram, Nvidia QuadroFX 3450, AJA Xena HS, Scsi320 raid 0. I also have a video toaster 3 with SX8 BOB for legacy stuff (I may upgrade to analogue AJA Xena card next year and toss the toaster -which, BTW, does handle/edit SD rez cineform media).

I did try to 'demo' a copy of Newteks SpeedEdit (looking for anything to replace PPro2), and it crashed repeatedly upon opening. Shame, I was interested in seeing how it would handle cineform media.

PPro3 is not without issues, nor is it complete, so even my observations could change with an update. I've just done very basic stuff; capture, cut and render (you know, things that crashed PPro2). So far, very good.

The titler within a cineform project is slow to open, but a little faster than with PPro2. Some transitions, such as push and cover, had verticle lines across the screen, but seem to have been addressed in latest plugin.

My recent issue is PPro3's lousy handling of large graphics. Old projects that were primarily still photo montages, etc. would open and then crash in PPro3. My latest, a single medium-size Jpeg is also crashed the app just scrubbing the timeline. I get the following:

AppName: adobe premiere pro.exe AppVer: 3.0.0.0
ModName: imagerenderer.dll
ModVer: 3.0.0.0 Offset: 0003215d

Somethings amiss with the imagerenderer.dll.

It's a cineform issue, I'm going to submit a bug.

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

My recent issue is PPro3's lousy handling of large graphics. Old projects that were primarily still photo montages, etc. would open and then crash in PPro3. My latest, a single medium-size Jpeg is also crashed the app just scrubbing the timeline. I get the following:

AppName: adobe premiere pro.exe AppVer: 3.0.0.0
ModName: imagerenderer.dll
ModVer: 3.0.0.0 Offset: 0003215d

Somethings amiss with the imagerenderer.dll.

It's a cineform issue, I'm going to submit a bug.

Sounds like an Adobe issue to me. Please submit a CS3 bug. With the Playback settings panel, turn off the 32-float which my help avoid image scrubbing/rendering issues.

[Peter Ferling]

Yup, that was it. 32bit float off -no crashy (the safe margins are also behaving). Not an issue in PPro2 either. 32bit float works there. Definitely a PPro3 bug. (Bug was already submitted earlier, but I'll readdress in regards to small images and safe margins).

Now, on to that blue/red thing...

[David Newman]

Thank you Peter, it is awesome have an outsider do these tests and report bugs to Adobe. Too many coming from CineForm might seem likely we are complaining about features customers don't need. However 32-bit float is the thing they can and need to do better than FCP.

[Peter Ferling]

I just did a quick test of red over blue; timeline vs. 422 vs 444. All I can say is holy &*%$!

When double checking my export to AE for FX earlier, I actually rendered with the 444 option enabled, and then back again! (Must of been on by default). Earlier I commented on how this back and forth looked identical to the original capture. No wonder! Granted, when blown up to 100%, you can see a slight difference between timeline and 444, but 422 is huge.

I've uploaded some screen captures into a zip file.

Tried uploading them, no luck. I have to go set up for a shoot, and will try uploading the screen captures tonight.

[David Newman]

We all go a little used to 4:2:2 as it is so common, but render a few things in 4:4:4 and can really see why FX work needs the extra chroma resolution.

[Peter Ferling]

Scary to think of how many techniques I used to pull a key on 4:1:1 (or 4:2:0). In an earlier post you can see that I used an old roll of green paper for the backdrop. Full of creases and wrinkles, and I used only three lights. My point was to create an 'ok' screen and see how far I could go. Well, the default settings of keylight got it! One click of the eye dropper and bang, key was done! Using 4:2:2 clips I had to apply two keys and use some CC to burn the edges red.

I could have went back to the set and added or adjusted the lights a little and made for a better key, but this equates into less hassle fixing things and more creative time building FX.

Here's the tiff examples I promissed earlier:

http://download.yousendit.com/93408E2B4689696C

Need some opinions.

I'll be providing an m2t of my little experiment in about hour. Gotta put the kids to bed.

[Peter Ferling]

Ok, I finally have an m2t file of my little "test" project resulting from the 444 RGB encoding of the new P2K code. I imported the high-rez final into PPro2 and rendered out a standard m2t file. The link will take you to my filefront page, where you can view a low quality, improperly scaled flash file. Best you just download the m2t.

http://files.filefront.com/7404785

The actual media itself is not important, but what's possible with the cineform codec. A marked improvement. Despite the 32bit float issue for large graphics (turning the feature off is a temporary fix), I feel the performance thus far justifies the upgrade. I've completed three small projects (real work) since testing this application, and I'm very satisfied.

I don't work for cineform, and I've never met any of the cineform folks. I'm not on the payroll, or taking a commission. My comments are based on facts and actual work.

If I seem overly upbeat or happy about this software it's because... well, to borrow a quote that all Jeep enthusiasts can relate to (once you own a jeep, you won't own anything else): "It's a cineform thing, you wouldn't understand"

[Peter Ferling]

Morning folks. Today I'm starting on my first long form project using PPro3, which involves about 8-hours of HDV material from a weekend company soccer tournament. Not really a test, but a working job so quit is not an option (like it ever really was before).

We've all.. (well, I have) come to a conclusion that PPro2 is not the best option for long form, memory intensive projects. Any project that requires loading more than four-hours of media and/or 100 stills can spell certain death for the project. The only work around is chopping the project up into smaller pieces, rendering in chunks, then reassembling the final renders for yet another final render. Then, and only then, can we embark on the second well know journey of trying to make a decent quality DVD, (not enough beers in the case to cover that topic).

The end result is that one project can turn into many, and if you encounter a change or edit to the original material. It can be become an all-day event.

So, here goes... I'll post back in a few days.