AspectHD/Blackmagic Intensity/HVR-V1U

Craig Irving · November 28th, 2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

The quality jump is large to use the HDMI output Intensity vs tape based HDV compression. However, one small correction, Aspect HD is only licensed to 1440x1080 not 1920x1080, so it will scale the HDMI output to 1440x1080 on the fly. Note: this is not a big quality factor as the V1U is only 1440x1080 4:2:2 internally. For 1920x1080 encoding you need Prospect HD or NEO HD.

Sorry to revive a dead thread, but I have a complex where I don't trust any information unless it comes straight from Cineform :)

Internally I thought the V1U was 1920x1080, which is why I strongly considered upgrading to Prospect HD. From your tests with the Blackmagic card, is it really effectively giving us 1440x1080? How about your experience with the HV20?

Assuming that was a mistake and that the V1U's HDMI actually could take full advantage of a 1920x1080 capture with the right software. Since HD-Link is the capture tool, couldn't I capture 1920x1080 and afterwards scale to 1440x1080 on the fly while I'm using Aspect HD? I plan to one day upgrade to Prospect, so I was hoping I wouldn't be limited in my capture resolution until then. I always figured HD-Link was the same tool no matter which plugin you were buying.

Cause it would be great if I could capture 1920x1080 live via the HDMI, even if I can't take advantage of it right now while I use Aspect HD. That way I could at least archive it and possibly re-edit the material at a later point in full 1920x1080 after upgrading to Prospect.

Now here's the real question. Am I making a big deal out of nothing? What has been your experience comparing 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 in this workflow? It could be such a minor difference that it's not worth fussing about.

David Newman · November 28th, 2007, 08:06 PM

Confusing question. Let me see if I have the answer.

HMDI is 1920x1080.

Aspect HD only captures 1440x1080 so it scales 1920 to 1440 on the fly.

Does this greatly impact image quality, no, as internally the picture is 1440x1080 and scaled up to go at HMDI. We believe the same is for the Canon HV20. While scaling 1440 to 1920 (in camera) and back to 1440, is not ideal, you are not losing your 1920 across as they didn't exist in the first place. Now 1920 has the advantage of being square pixel, so the HMDI was a free upscaler for you that Prospect HD or NEO HD can directly capture. Once you're editing in Prospect there are many other advantages, but the image quality from V1U/HD20 is not a large factor as both are effectively 1440x1080 8-bit sources.

Craig Irving · November 28th, 2007, 08:21 PM

That's interesting then, because the prelimenary specs on the Cineform HDMI Recorder will give the option of recording 1920x1080 or 1280x720, regardless of which Cineform product you plan to edit with (in fact at the moment it doesn't plan to offer 1440, which isn't bad or anything). So the files being saved will be 1920x1080 even if you cannot take full advantage of it with your plugin. It doesn't descriminate, so to speak.

So I guess that would be one other advantage to using this HDMI recorder as opposed to a Blackmagic Intensity installation which WOULD discriminate (if I'm understanding you correctly) and only allow you to capture/save based on the plugin that's installed on your system.

I'm just confused because I looked at the Cineform Intensity support webpage and it was clear that it's not Prospect or Aspect *itself* that does the capturing, it's all done in HD-Link.

I guess HD-Link checks which plugin is installed with it and then imposes necessary restrictions? Or are there different versions of the HD-Link tool itself?

David Newman · November 28th, 2007, 10:41 PM

HDLink is slightly different in each of our software packages. Aspect HD will edit 1920 files, it just would create them. Therefor no need for 1440x1080 mode on the mobile recorder.

Stephen Armour · November 29th, 2007, 07:41 PM

Craig, for many of us, one major advantage of taking HDMI output from the V1, is to catch the video before more processing is done by the camera, then saving it as 1920x1080 files in 10bit color. That is real gain, especially for chromakey. Compression introduces DV artifacts and there is NOTHING else you can do to change that once the video is recorded on that tape. ONLY CF'ed video, captured at that HDMI point can change that scenerio.

If you do much chroma, you'll soon discover that those beautiful chroma's done on "flying, blond hair" are not nearly so easy to do as Ultra (or AE) would lead you to believe! Even under ideal lighting with a very good screen, it's hard to pull off under some conditions, especially if you're doing it in HD. There is very little margin for error and it's very unforgiving when seen at these high resolutions on good screens.

So, that's certainly "gain" for some of us. And probably more, if most knew about it...

November 28th, 2007, 08:06 PM	#17
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Confusing question. Let me see if I have the answer. HMDI is 1920x1080. Aspect HD only captures 1440x1080 so it scales 1920 to 1440 on the fly. Does this greatly impact image quality, no, as internally the picture is 1440x1080 and scaled up to go at HMDI. We believe the same is for the Canon HV20. While scaling 1440 to 1920 (in camera) and back to 1440, is not ideal, you are not losing your 1920 across as they didn't exist in the first place. Now 1920 has the advantage of being square pixel, so the HMDI was a free upscaler for you that Prospect HD or NEO HD can directly capture. Once you're editing in Prospect there are many other advantages, but the image quality from V1U/HD20 is not a large factor as both are effectively 1440x1080 8-bit sources. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 28th, 2007, 10:41 PM	#19
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	HDLink is slightly different in each of our software packages. Aspect HD will edit 1920 files, it just would create them. Therefor no need for 1440x1080 mode on the mobile recorder. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 29th, 2007, 07:41 PM	#20
Stephen Armour Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Natal, RN, Brasil Posts: 900	Craig, for many of us, one major advantage of taking HDMI output from the V1, is to catch the video before more processing is done by the camera, then saving it as 1920x1080 files in 10bit color. That is real gain, especially for chromakey. Compression introduces DV artifacts and there is NOTHING else you can do to change that once the video is recorded on that tape. ONLY CF'ed video, captured at that HDMI point can change that scenerio. If you do much chroma, you'll soon discover that those beautiful chroma's done on "flying, blond hair" are not nearly so easy to do as Ultra (or AE) would lead you to believe! Even under ideal lighting with a very good screen, it's hard to pull off under some conditions, especially if you're doing it in HD. There is very little margin for error and it's very unforgiving when seen at these high resolutions on good screens. So, that's certainly "gain" for some of us. And probably more, if most knew about it... __________________ http://lightinaction.org "All in the view of the LION"

November 28th, 2007, 08:21 PM	#18
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	That's interesting then, because the prelimenary specs on the Cineform HDMI Recorder will give the option of recording 1920x1080 or 1280x720, regardless of which Cineform product you plan to edit with (in fact at the moment it doesn't plan to offer 1440, which isn't bad or anything). So the files being saved will be 1920x1080 even if you cannot take full advantage of it with your plugin. It doesn't descriminate, so to speak. So I guess that would be one other advantage to using this HDMI recorder as opposed to a Blackmagic Intensity installation which WOULD discriminate (if I'm understanding you correctly) and only allow you to capture/save based on the plugin that's installed on your system. I'm just confused because I looked at the Cineform Intensity support webpage and it was clear that it's not Prospect or Aspect itself that does the capturing, it's all done in HD-Link. I guess HD-Link checks which plugin is installed with it and then imposes necessary restrictions? Or are there different versions of the HD-Link tool itself?